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TOPIC: 2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals

2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #13

I'd still recommend Shirt of Focus as an alternate.

The Pirate Map recipe still seems too low. It seemed widely agreed last year that the current version was too low at 10 trade items for 10 pulls. Jeff wanted to double it but didn't because it was already being ordered. But this is the exact same ratio and it seems like it will lead to the same problems. If you double it to 40 trade items I think it will still be very high demand.
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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #14

How Many Ta'Mores and Rolland's are made? Use that as your baseline for expected transmute an AC only item, and then cross reference the trade good cost. In case you need Rolland's recipe, here it is:

1× Ring of Protection +4
1× Minor Ring of Fortitude
1× Minor Ring of Reflexes
1× Minor Ring of Will
1× Ring of Protection +1 (Rare)
6× Alchemist’s Ink
15× Alchemist’s Parchment
2× Aragonite
16× Darkwood Plank
10× Dwarven Steel
1× Elven Bismuth
2× Enchanter’s Munition
1× Golden Fleece
4× Minotaur Hide
10× Mystic Silk
2× Oil of Enchantment
16× Philosopher’s Stone
1× 25,000 GP Eldritch Ore Bar
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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #15

Ian Lee wrote: Following up on what Fred said, if want to gouge players, start with Arcanum as it has no history.

Require like 10x every TG and 20kgp if want with Arcanum. Then can make set bonus "you win, congratulations" or whatever to justify the cost.


I'm not sure I'd use the term gouge :).

Seriously - if TD wants a dramatic uptick in orders to support expensive transmutes - cater to the hardcore collectors for it. Bring back something like the arcane recipes but have it be 10x the transmute requirements of a legendary with limits of only 1 per person, it can't be transferred, and only 10 can be made - first come, first served. Trent might beat me to get one done but I'm pretty sure I'd be one of those 10.

Even transmutes that do something that isn't gamebreaking but is just a ridiculous vanity would make sense. A transmute for a special light you get to use in the dungeons that you get to keep (same light intensity but more reliable.) A transmute that lets you have tokens verified once per con then not have to bring anything back into the dungeon other than your weapon(s) and consumables. A transmute that gives you a different colored puck that you get to keep. A transmute that gives you a vanity character card that you get to keep. There are a lot of ways to encourage the veterans to keep pouring out transmute money without handicapping the newer players.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #16

Mike Steele wrote: I'd still recommend Shirt of Focus as an alternate.

The Pirate Map recipe still seems too low. It seemed widely agreed last year that the current version was too low at 10 trade items for 10 pulls. Jeff wanted to double it but didn't because it was already being ordered. But this is the exact same ratio and it seems like it will lead to the same problems. If you double it to 40 trade items I think it will still be very high demand.


Assuming TGs don't go up for it (as per Mike's suggestion), alternate cost of 1 GF for 1 OBBT? Help bleed the economy of the buildup of MBs that can't be used for a 4-year.
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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #17

Fred K wrote:

Endgame wrote: An example set of questions I have:

Given: Vim's boots full construction cost (relic + legendary) is roughly 2350 at current auction prices.

Also given: Secondary market costs of Boots of the 4 winds is about 1200. Kilt is around 300, and skull is around 1500(?)

Do you expect Vim's boots to be desirable enough in builds that a player already owning Boots of the 4 Winds will replace them with Vims?

Do you expect a new player who is outright purchasing high end tokens to choose Vim's over Bot4Winds + either skull or Kilt, given that the eldrich items also confer a level and other set bonuses?

Do you expect a player who is saving trade goods to transmute their first legendary to transmute Vim's or Boaz when they use roughly 3x the TG of building older legendaries, such as Pharacus's?

Do you expect a player who is saving trade goods to transmute their first Relic to do so when they use roughly equivalent the TG of building older legendaries, such as Pharacus's?


+1

I love True Dungeon and appreciate it tremendously. My comments here are about a specific cost creep that has been getting worse year by year. I'd like to see TD continue and selling tokens is a huge part of that. Like any hobby, that means new players are the lifesblood to it continuing to be healthy for years to come. Please don't take these comments as being critical about your organization as a whole - just a critique of a troubling trend.

Why spend $950 to transmute the boot relic when you could buy a secondary market legendary that is superior in every way? A Surtr's Belt just went for $700 in auction a few weeks ago. Would this relic be more valuable than that legendary?

Spending $2K for these boots when compared to $1,500 for BoFW makes no sense.

The escalating transmute costs give players fewer and fewer reasons to participate in transmutes beyond the 3 and 4 star ones when much better options are available through secondary markets.

I'm a hard-core collector (have all but 2 UR+ non-unique tokens every made) and I can't see transmuting these myself at these prices. This past year I did the transmutes but mainly because of how overpowered the legendaries were.

The logic to these boots is that they are for newer players. Very few newer players will want to do this transmute at these costs (and those that do will kick themselves after looking at Trent/Kirk/Chad/Mike's stores for what they could have bought for the same costs.) The total transmute (relic+legendary) can't exceed $1,500 or it doesn't make sense to do. As a general rule, I'd recommend 5 star relics not exceed $500 and legendaries not exceed $1,500. Maybe make the eldritch and arcanum and similar transmutes stratospheric in costs but, now that in-person is back, bringing in new players is even more important.

I would recommend that component costs be reduced by at least 30% and the boots should be dropped by at least 50% (yes - back to 2018 levels if they are aimed at newer players - remember, not everyone gets 23 draws per run and does 50+ runs/year.)

Fred


New player here. (start GenCon 2019, bought my way to Nightmare. No Rod, Boots, or Ring.)

I'll never transmute these. The costs are too high. Cheaper to sell my MH/DS/etc and wait a year.

Fred is right.
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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #18

The MH and DS on the Relics is too high. 10/10 is too high though with the white chocolate tokens, maybe someone gets lucky and would approach a relics. If between the two they came out to the DS / MH of a 2k or 3k order it might be reasonable to assume some trading, those are about an 3k order for one though.

Could we get a secondary OBB-TM alt recipe of like 5 of EB/OE and 5 AG and 3 monster trophies to maybe even out the market a bit? maybe just 8 T2's would do it also, I'm not entirely certain though it would help I'm sure, excluding bar's.

I thought the boots were part of a "return to older legendaries, a bit weaker and a bit cheaper" though that is not the case, any reason why? ... that said, they change the "trade off" for several classes to wear armor in the torso slot reasoning from earlier this year somewhat of a moot point. I also missed that they're inclusive of Monk and Wizard, is that legit?
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats

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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #19

macxdmg wrote: The MH and DS on the Relics is too high. 10/10 is too high though with the white chocolate tokens, maybe someone gets lucky and would approach a relics. If between the two they came out to the DS / MH of a 2k or 3k order it might be reasonable to assume some trading, those are about an 3k order for one though.

Could we get a secondary OBB-TM alt recipe of like 5 of EB/OE and 5 AG and 3 monster trophies to maybe even out the market a bit? maybe just 8 T2's would do it also, I'm not entirely certain though it would help I'm sure, excluding bar's.

I thought the boots were part of a "return to older legendaries, a bit weaker and a bit cheaper" though that is not the case, any reason why? ... that said, they change the "trade off" for several classes to wear armor in the torso slot reasoning from earlier this year somewhat of a moot point. I also missed that they're inclusive of Monk and Wizard, is that legit?


These are definitely more trade goods than prior years, no question.

I don’t think the issue is mix at this point, it is volume.

The boots, especially, I can’t see most players doing. AC doesn’t matter in TD (with only a handful of exceptions.) Spending $2,500 for +6 AC and immune to surprise isn’t something most players would do. For that much, someone could buy BoFW and a CoAS and still have $500 left over for other items.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058
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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #20

I had a thought about the boot transmute.

There is an opportunity to connect to new players with this one. It would mean making the transmute quite a bit less expensive but has some interesting benefits,

Have the relic transmute be about $300 in trade goods. Cut everything in half (or more) in costs except gp for the relic. For the legendary, have the transmute costs be almost identical to the relic except for gold and a wish ring. Add some 2022 and/or 2023 completion tokens to the recipe.

This could be the first legendary that is attainable for newer players who do not have a ton of cash. It isn’t the best token but the feeling of finally having an orange token in your collection is a great feeling and this could be their first.

Lastly, add a set bonus for Vim’s. Having two Vim’s legendaries grants 5th level. That gives an addition benefit to fighters that we’ve been looking for and is an easier path for new players to get to higher levels of difficulty,

Thoughts?

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058
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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #21

Fred K wrote:

macxdmg wrote: The MH and DS on the Relics is too high. 10/10 is too high though with the white chocolate tokens, maybe someone gets lucky and would approach a relics. If between the two they came out to the DS / MH of a 2k or 3k order it might be reasonable to assume some trading, those are about an 3k order for one though.

Could we get a secondary OBB-TM alt recipe of like 5 of EB/OE and 5 AG and 3 monster trophies to maybe even out the market a bit? maybe just 8 T2's would do it also, I'm not entirely certain though it would help I'm sure, excluding bar's.

I thought the boots were part of a "return to older legendaries, a bit weaker and a bit cheaper" though that is not the case, any reason why? ... that said, they change the "trade off" for several classes to wear armor in the torso slot reasoning from earlier this year somewhat of a moot point. I also missed that they're inclusive of Monk and Wizard, is that legit?


These are definitely more trade goods than prior years, no question.

I don’t think the issue is mix at this point, it is volume.

The boots, especially, I can’t see most players doing. AC doesn’t matter in TD (with only a handful of exceptions.) Spending $2,500 for +6 AC and immune to surprise isn’t something most players would do. For that much, someone could buy BoFW and a CoAS and still have $500 left over for other items.

Fred


Point blank +6 AC is lackluster and will NOT be something I would ever chase. Raising the chance I get hit or not? Who cares.
Jamie
AureliusBP

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Am on Discord as AureliusBP if you want realtime chat.
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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #22

Fred K wrote: I had a thought about the boot transmute.

There is an opportunity to connect to new players with this one. It would mean making the transmute quite a bit less expensive but has some interesting benefits,

Have the relic transmute be about $300 in trade goods. Cut everything in half (or more) in costs except gp for the relic. For the legendary, have the transmute costs be almost identical to the relic except for gold and a wish ring. Add some 2022 and/or 2023 completion tokens to the recipe.

This could be the first legendary that is attainable for newer players who do not have a ton of cash. It isn’t the best token but the feeling of finally having an orange token in your collection is a great feeling and this could be their first.

Lastly, add a set bonus for Vim’s. Having two Vim’s legendaries grants 5th level. That gives an addition benefit to fighters that we’ve been looking for and is an easier path for new players to get to higher levels of difficulty,

Thoughts?

Fred


I absolutely love this idea! My party has 2 Boots of the Four Winds. As is, I would buy multiple Bot4W before making a single Vim’s. With this suggested change, I would consider making at least one if not more.
I play Wizard.
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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #23

Fred K wrote: Lastly, add a set bonus for Vim’s. Having two Vim’s legendaries grants 5th level. That gives an addition benefit to fighters that we’ve been looking for and is an easier path for new players to get to higher levels of difficulty,


Thoughts? OK... as a purple+ human fighter, I couldn't care less about +6 AC boots that give 5th level. For $2500, I can buy the entire orange redoubt set on eBay (or dang near close to it).

That said, a set bonus isn't a terrible idea, but I thought that ship sailed.
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2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals 1 month 3 days ago #24

Does anyone have a spreadsheet tracking TG costs by auction going back a few years (pre-pandemic)?
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