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TOPIC: Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round)

Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #13

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Josh M. wrote: On the UR Necklace of the Zephyr, what does "No mods allowed" mean?

I notice the UR tome got shifted from an Instant Action to a free action. Is there a reason for that? It didn't seem all that powerful to begin with, it feels even less so now.


Thanks for the feedback!

Necklace - you cannot modify the spell for extra damage in any way -- just like with the Bracelets.

Tome - it was going to cause too many issues leaving it as an Instant Action. I understand if it will not be used as much by big token collectors, but I think some newbies might enjoy it. It was either put it back to Free Action or strap it. Sorry!
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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #14

Josh M. wrote: I notice the UR tome got shifted from an Instant Action to a free action. Is there a reason for that? It didn't seem all that powerful to begin with, it feels even less so now.


Agreed. It significantly reduces the spell book's usefulness, which is a shame because I really like the idea of a spell book.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #15

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Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote: I would prefer that the +3 was melee and not range for purely selfish reasons, but do feel that moving to +3 is appropriate. The overall power level of the game has increased and newer tokens should reflect this.

Disagree completely, especially when +3 would be appropriate for a relic.

I also need to ask why is poly still so high on the robes? The spell damage isn’t fixed like Focus items (the most common spells get no bonus) so there should be a limit on the poly effect if it needs to be There at all. Note that +4 to poly is a dramatic increase in damage from the +1 available from Death Knight mail which will still be in print.

I believe the robes also pulls the max damage poly Druid right up to The Barbarian for Maxium damage - the Barb is at +70 currently and will go up to 72. The Druid is at 64 and goes up to 70.


The Druid would have to give up some nice armor to wear the Robe. That's an interesting choice.
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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #16

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Andy Strassmann wrote:

Josh M. wrote: I notice the UR tome got shifted from an Instant Action to a free action. Is there a reason for that? It didn't seem all that powerful to begin with, it feels even less so now.


Agreed. It significantly reduces the spell book's usefulness, which is a shame because I really like the idea of a spell book.


Thanks for your thoughts. This was not meant to be a Spellbook. Hopefully we can tackle character re-design later this year where Spellbooks can get a chance.
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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #17

Jeff Martin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Endgame wrote: Did you intend to buff the damage on the UR Ranged ioun? I’d leave that at +2.


Yes, we decided with the +2 Rares, it needed to be done. The Ioun Stone space is getting very crowded so feels about the right time to give this slot the move up to other slots.

You just added the first Ranged damage ioun stone in 2020 at +2. I don’t think creeping the damage in that slot with Banshee prism just out of print is ideal. Save the 3 damage option for a relic - bet you would get lots of transmutes there.

Your idea of a 2 regen IS was better for something new in Ioun to be honest. If you’re really at a loss throw in a reprint.


Thanks for the considered feedback. We have at Rare +2 damage Ioun Stones in the past (2020), so going to +3 is not all that strange I think.

tokendb.com/token/ioun-stone-jasper-ellipsoid/

Yep - that was a completion token that was above the curve, much like belt of the brave was above the curve. The occasional above the curve completion token ends up being an OK experience.

Someone who pyp’d banshee prism in 2021 is likely to feel differently since their purchase has been generally obsoleted almost immediately after going oop, while other slots have been relatively stable for over 10 years (gloves).

Given how new banshee prism and infernal fire prism are (will the plan be to quickly release a +3 damage melee version next year?), I imagine an exchange is not an option either?

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #18

Ring of Shadows is such a cool name. It would be nice to see a rogue tie-in. Maybe consider rogues sneak attack without 1 round delay from the hood of shadows and +1 AC instead of +1 AC and +1 saves.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #19

I’d still like to see the rogue auto pass on the UR bead be added to the relic and legendary, or get rid of the part where can only use one of the 3. I do prefer adding the rogue auto pass over removing the other limitation.

I like new new Range Ioun stone being +3

I like the new TE bead better at +3, and if the goal is to have another CoA like legendary that competes with CoA then it might be better to boost it back to +3. If the intent is for the future Legendary to work with CoA then I guess it’s irrelevant.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #20

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OrionW wrote: Ring of Shadows is such a cool name. It would be nice to see a rogue tie-in. Maybe consider rogues sneak attack without 1 round delay from the hood of shadows and +1 AC instead of +1 AC and +1 saves.


This token is intended to be more like the old Rare Cloak of Shadows: tokendb.com/token/shadow-cloak/
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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #21

On the UR Necklace of the Zephyr the spacing between Free and Action seems strange. I don't know if it just the image we have, or if a space is missing.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #22

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Updated thoughts:
- Bead of Bounty: Seems fine, but this does feel like it's less good for new players. I think there still needs to be some consideration of how does the gap close between those that have CoAs and those who are on their way to CoA 2.0. Bead being 3 seemed better for new players, especially if a cap is instituted. I think it would be beneficial for folks to know what the TE transmute plan is, it's really hard to evaluate in a vacuum.
- Ioun Stone Kyanite seems really strong, and is a bit of creep for the slot. If that's intended, cool, but it is a meaningful jump.
- Necklace of the Zephyr is in a weird place. With no mods, it will see very little use. With full mods, it's 80% of mage medallion with no cost. I'd rather see it as is than let it be modified, but modify + 1x/game is probably better.
- I'm so glad ring of the savant sticks around. It's one of the coolest designs in awhile.
- Robe of Harmony is still super misguided. I don't want to restart the dumpster fire of the other thread, but please consider making it only healing or adding wizards. It's super janky as is.
- Tome of Useful Scrolls - It's interesting and novel, but I'm not sure it's useful as a free action and common/uncommon only. I think other folks said it first, but I think allowing any + 1x/game but it's a free action makes sense OR instant, but common/uncommon only.

All in all, the set looks pretty cool. :) I think there are a few really important things to address though.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #23

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d still like to see the rogue auto pass on the UR bead be added to the relic and legendary, or get rid of the part where can only use one of the 3. I do prefer adding the rogue auto pass over removing the other limitation.


The UR Bead was renamed, and can stack with the Relic or Legendary.

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Final-Final Token Images (minor tweaks this round) 2 months 2 weeks ago #24

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Endgame wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Endgame wrote: Did you intend to buff the damage on the UR Ranged ioun? I’d leave that at +2.


Yes, we decided with the +2 Rares, it needed to be done. The Ioun Stone space is getting very crowded so feels about the right time to give this slot the move up to other slots.

You just added the first Ranged damage ioun stone in 2020 at +2. I don’t think creeping the damage in that slot with Banshee prism just out of print is ideal. Save the 3 damage option for a relic - bet you would get lots of transmutes there.

Your idea of a 2 regen IS was better for something new in Ioun to be honest. If you’re really at a loss throw in a reprint.


Thanks for the considered feedback. We have at Rare +2 damage Ioun Stones in the past (2020), so going to +3 is not all that strange I think.

tokendb.com/token/ioun-stone-jasper-ellipsoid/

Yep - that was a completion token that was above the curve, much like belt of the brave was above the curve. The occasional above the curve completion token ends up being an OK experience.

Someone who pyp’d banshee prism in 2021 is likely to feel differently since their purchase has been generally obsoleted almost immediately after going oop, while other slots have been relatively stable for over 10 years (gloves).

Given how new banshee prism and infernal fire prism are (will the plan be to quickly release a +3 damage melee version next year?), I imagine an exchange is not an option either?


Sorry for the ill-feelings. It is tricky to do power levels when we decided over a decade ago that slots with more slots should generally receive slightly less powerful tokens. One socket slots are easier to do, but when the slots with more sockets start to fill up we must make a call to bump things up. Maybe we can take a half-step and do +2 damage and then something like -1 from Cold?
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