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TOPIC: Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably)

Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 3 weeks ago #25

Lequinian wrote:

Endgame wrote: Edit:
Thinking this over as I cross posted a little to the transmute thread, +2 Focus and +3 skill check might actually be too much. It’s fine for a one off, but if we made 10 of these items (ring, bead, crown, charm, ioun, etc) having +30 to the skill check would be a lot. Maybe gloves of skillful Focus should be +2 Focus, +2 to successful skill check.


Or only one "skillful" bonus can apply per check?

You could limit it to 1, but then you don’t get a build subtype after a few years that do less guaranteed damage, but more skill damage. Depends how far TPTB want to take the idea, if they wanted to do it at all.

Edit:
And yes, I’m aware the highest damage wizard spells are not skill check based. This would further change how you play in the short term by using different spells.

Long term, after card redesign one wizard could lean toward slide and Aoe spells, while the other could lean to single target and skill check.

Edit 2
Like, maybe the human wizard card could get lightning bolt instead of lightning storm - 25 damage single target with skill check, and a similar substitution on one of the side spells.

Edit 3
And to take the idea over the top, could have an arcanum alt class: wild mage:

Skill check spells deal 0 base damage, but double or triple the skill check bonus. Oh, and these spells are a random selection of any classes skill check, be prepared to answer a bard or Cleric check.
Last edit: by Endgame.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 3 weeks ago #26

Endgame wrote: we really haven’t explored much design space at UR+ regarding skill checks.
...
+3 bonus to successful skill checks
...

If we went this route, you could open up a whole new build style: Skill Check focused. Any where we have a <item> of Focus, you could have a a <item> of skillful Focus that has less base damage and healing but adds extra value to a passed skill check.


I love this concept, and would take it even further: instead of making each token hybrid, a line of tokens that add a higher bonus to skill check instead of a lower flat focus bonus. (You can hybridize your build overall as desired simply by equipping Focus tokens in some slots and Skill tokens in other slots)

While I realize it's a little late in the proverbial day, it so happens this set already contains a token that is perfectly named to initiate this line:

Robe of Skill: +3 to heal or damage spell if Skill Test is passed

Like the current draft Robe of Skill its benefit would not go on the party card, yet it feels much more natural and appealing to me by activating based on skill test instead of based on arbitrary spell levels, and it gets rid of a 1/game auto-pass that I frankly doubt these specific classes care much about anyway (AFAICT most spellcasters either want to do their skill tests and have them matter all the time OR want to auto-pass them all the time, so 1/game doesn't really help either camp).

I'm also perfectly happy exploring the idea with gloves as Endgame suggested, but the "of Skill" name is just so perfect for what I would love to see.

I'll note that there is some precedent for this at Normal level with UC tokendb.com/token/druids-sacred-vestments/ , but for Nightmare level we need to kick it up to UR.
dmrzzz's trade thread

Yes, my AC is lower than the Wizard's. No regrets!
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 3 weeks ago #27

Excellent suggestion on the robes of skill.

Might be best to start with just a single skill UR token at first. In that case, perhaps gloves of focus change to this:


Gauntlets of divine guidance
+2 melee hit and +2 Healing
Last edit: by Endgame.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 3 weeks ago #28

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Thank your for the Ranged damage Ioun.

My only concern with another UR ioun means there won’t be a completion token version. I think having a Ranged version of Jasper would be good


I'd also hope for ranged damage Iouns, the Melee ones followed the first Melee UR by a few years, so maybe next year...
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 3 weeks ago #29

Endgame wrote: Gauntlets of divine guidance
+2 melee hit and +2 Healing


Would love to see this!
dmrzzz's trade thread

Yes, my AC is lower than the Wizard's. No regrets!
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 3 weeks ago #30

That ring seems incredibly weak compared to effects from other named tokens of appreciation.

Lori Martin wrote: YES! THIS!!!!


True Dungeon tourist.
This is a neat thing.

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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 3 weeks ago #31

  • NightGod
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Another +1 on the idea to change the gloves and robes to + on passed skill checks. What a great way to make skill checks relevant again in high level play!
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 3 weeks ago #32

Mauve Shirt wrote: That ring seems incredibly weak compared to effects from other named tokens of appreciation.


I agree, I think that ship haas sailed however.
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Trade thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253064#406060
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 2 weeks ago #33

NightGod wrote: Another +1 on the idea to change the gloves and robes to + on passed skill checks. What a great way to make skill checks relevant again in high level play!


For what it's worth I'd love this too.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 2 weeks ago #34

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Endgame wrote: Here is a different spin on the gloves, as we really haven’t explored much design space at UR+ regarding skill checks.

Gloves of skillful Focus

+2 Focus
+3 bonus to successful skill checks

This gives wizards that want to lean into skill checks a +2 damage bonus over blessed tempest (assuming they pass the check). If they don’t want to skill check, they still get +2 or can use blessed tempest.

100% poly Druids may prefer +str gauntlets, but jack of all trades Druids might like the boost that passing skill checks involves.

Clerics just get better Healing gloves than the rare gloves of Healing / gloves of Focus.

If we went this route, you could open up a whole new build style: Skill Check focused. Any where we have a <item> of Focus, you could have a a <item> of skillful Focus that has less base damage and healing but adds extra value to a passed skill check.

Edit:
Thinking this over as I cross posted a little to the transmute thread, +2 Focus and +3 skill check might actually be too much. It’s fine for a one off, but if we made 10 of these items (ring, bead, crown, charm, ioun, etc) having +30 to the skill check would be a lot. Maybe gloves of skillful Focus should be +2 Focus, +2 to successful skill check.


LOVE this idea, and the way it could really help move us away from cookie-cutter “best builds”.

Similar to the way Jeff said he’d like to reward the Melee sliders who can hit a 20, this would allow Casters to really shine passing their skill tests.

This gives a lot of room for interesting token designs in the future, too!
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 2 weeks ago #35

Raven wrote:

Endgame wrote: Here is a different spin on the gloves, as we really haven’t explored much design space at UR+ regarding skill checks.

Gloves of skillful Focus

+2 Focus
+3 bonus to successful skill checks

This gives wizards that want to lean into skill checks a +2 damage bonus over blessed tempest (assuming they pass the check). If they don’t want to skill check, they still get +2 or can use blessed tempest.

100% poly Druids may prefer +str gauntlets, but jack of all trades Druids might like the boost that passing skill checks involves.

Clerics just get better Healing gloves than the rare gloves of Healing / gloves of Focus.

If we went this route, you could open up a whole new build style: Skill Check focused. Any where we have a <item> of Focus, you could have a a <item> of skillful Focus that has less base damage and healing but adds extra value to a passed skill check.

Edit:
Thinking this over as I cross posted a little to the transmute thread, +2 Focus and +3 skill check might actually be too much. It’s fine for a one off, but if we made 10 of these items (ring, bead, crown, charm, ioun, etc) having +30 to the skill check would be a lot. Maybe gloves of skillful Focus should be +2 Focus, +2 to successful skill check.


LOVE this idea, and the way it could really help move us away from cookie-cutter “best builds”.

Similar to the way Jeff said he’d like to reward the Melee sliders who can hit a 20, this would allow Casters to really shine passing their skill tests.

This gives a lot of room for interesting token designs in the future, too!


I don't think the new tokens would impact this. It would be easy to say that this requires a successful skill test and not an autopass skill test.
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Final Ultra Rare Images! (probably) 2 months 2 weeks ago #36

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Mike Steele wrote:

Raven wrote:

Endgame wrote: Here is a different spin on the gloves, as we really haven’t explored much design space at UR+ regarding skill checks.

Gloves of skillful Focus

+2 Focus
+3 bonus to successful skill checks

This gives wizards that want to lean into skill checks a +2 damage bonus over blessed tempest (assuming they pass the check). If they don’t want to skill check, they still get +2 or can use blessed tempest.

100% poly Druids may prefer +str gauntlets, but jack of all trades Druids might like the boost that passing skill checks involves.

Clerics just get better Healing gloves than the rare gloves of Healing / gloves of Focus.

If we went this route, you could open up a whole new build style: Skill Check focused. Any where we have a <item> of Focus, you could have a a <item> of skillful Focus that has less base damage and healing but adds extra value to a passed skill check.

Edit:
Thinking this over as I cross posted a little to the transmute thread, +2 Focus and +3 skill check might actually be too much. It’s fine for a one off, but if we made 10 of these items (ring, bead, crown, charm, ioun, etc) having +30 to the skill check would be a lot. Maybe gloves of skillful Focus should be +2 Focus, +2 to successful skill check.


LOVE this idea, and the way it could really help move us away from cookie-cutter “best builds”.

Similar to the way Jeff said he’d like to reward the Melee sliders who can hit a 20, this would allow Casters to really shine passing their skill tests.

This gives a lot of room for interesting token designs in the future, too!


I don't think the new tokens would impact this. It would be easy to say that this requires a successful skill test and not an autopass skill test.

Agreed, I think "autopass" and "bonus on pass" should be mutually exclusive. I'd still use both situationally and I like tokens that give me tactical options.
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