TOPIC: 2022 Recipe Discussion

Two quick thoughts:

• None of the recipes this year call for specific monster bits or a full set of the 2021 bits. I really liked how the recipes for Orion's and the Elfstone Shard had a requirement for a full set of the bits. Perhaps the +3 Turkey Leg could get adjusted to follow a similar recipe?
• I think it's fine to increase the Golden Fleece cost in the recipe as long as there is a commensurate decrease in trade goods. A shift in the cost towards Fleece puts more value on runs/treasure pulls, which isn't horrendous. But, the cost in trade goods should go down to compensate.

OrionW wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote: I recommend increasing Golden Fleece or announcing a new monster bit transmute soon. VDT is awesome, but I am running out of room to store monster bits.

My opinion, which may be an outlier, is that playing TD should be a more important part of the the transmute process.

We literally just spent the day fighting AGAINST a change to the recipes increasing the number of Golden Fleece used. Please do not suggest increasing it.

Arcanist what rational was given to reducing the GF requirements, it seems with more opportunities to play this would be one area where transmutes are not supply constrained, what am I missing?

I think the issue is that we dont have a chart showing an actual provable increase in monster bits being handed out as a whole. While VTD gives players more opportunity to play, it doesn't necessarily mean treasure dispersed has increased. In a previous conversation with a group of players our math showed that GenCon represented around 8k tickets vs VTD which is 990-1k. So for the Gencon missed, it would take 8 VTD weekends to make up what was missed, and this doesnt even take into account the other cons lost.

One could argue that VTD allowed more sharing of TEs and could have increased Treasure drops, but without actual proof, it is all theory and anecdotal. VTD does however make it easier to ghost runs and get full treasure as they are cheaper than some Cons, and you dont have to fight to buy out the tickets like with Gencon ticketing system. I couldn't find the 2019 Treasure tracking spreadsheet, but those would be a good start, however not everybody fills them out as I know I have been playing since 2012 and hadnt filled them out until this year. If we can see an actual increase of MBs that justifies such a drastic jump, I would be fine with an increase, but Im not sure it was that high of an increase.

OrionW wrote: Looking at the treasure spreadsheet it looks like Monster Bits this year have been ~16% of all pulls. So for ~ every 63 pulls you will have enough to make a GF.

1 GF - ~63 Pulls
2 GF - ~126 pulls
3 GF - ~189 pulls
4 GF - ~252 pulls

252 pulls for (2 GF for the relic and 2 GF for the legendary) feels right to me for Muk's or the Luna's. I would rather see this than an increase in AG, EB, and OE. With that said if it stays where it is I don't think it is the end of the world. If there is a glut of GF going forward 2023 recipes can be increased to use them up.

Um, ok, but let's take those number with a different perspective.

If I run every dungeon for a year (V1-V6) with max treasure. I would have BARELY enough monster bits for 2 golden fleece. So, I get to make ONE RELIC regardless of any other tokens I purchased...AND I have zero monster bits left to use for other transmutes or multi-year relic.

Unless relics are only meant for those who run every dungeon multiple times (and with max treasure), relics need to stay at only 1 GF.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Did I go on more runs this year because of VTD? Yes.
Did those runs result in more total monster bits this year? Yes.
Did I spend more total money to go on those runs? Yes.
Do I feel like the cost to make a Legendary should increase just because the opportunity to spend more money was available? No.

A new sink for monster bits might be a good idea though. Maybe a Earcuff of Heroism.

Exactly this.

Do not punish me for supporting True Dungeon during the Pandemic by making tokens cost more.

Personally I stretched to do as many VTD runs as possible to do my bit to keep the lights on as it were. I'm sure there are a bunch of us on here who did the same. I don't think we are at all representation of the general population though.

I'm not upset but I would love to have a transmute that used a lot of ghosts/folios/plague year bits. I kind of miss having a multi year story line thing to work towards. The reaver was fun but its not quite scratching the itch anymore. Perhaps a recipe to make a certain saves iounstone that interacts with a certain skull since the people who ran a lot of VTD are likely to intersect with skull havers even if they are not all 8k patrons. Or an announcement that plague year bits will be included in a future 4c of some kind.

In terms of the new legendary recipe versions, I'd like to see Luna's gain 10 DP (35) and lose 5 DS (15).

I'm all in favor of having an outlet for Folios. I was kind of thinking Ghost Accelerator was going to be a transmute for some reason, where sinking a bunch of ghosts into that would have made sense.

Picc wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Did I go on more runs this year because of VTD? Yes.
Did those runs result in more total monster bits this year? Yes.
Did I spend more total money to go on those runs? Yes.
Do I feel like the cost to make a Legendary should increase just because the opportunity to spend more money was available? No.

A new sink for monster bits might be a good idea though. Maybe a Earcuff of Heroism.

Exactly this.

Do not punish me for supporting True Dungeon during the Pandemic by making tokens cost more.

Personally I stretched to do as many VTD runs as possible to do my bit to keep the lights on as it were. I'm sure there are a bunch of us on here who did the same. I don't think we are at all representation of the general population though.

I'm not upset but I would love to have a transmute that used a lot of ghosts/folios/plague year bits. I kind of miss having a multi year story line thing to work towards. The reaver was fun but its not quite scratching the itch anymore. Perhaps a recipe to make a certain saves iounstone that interacts with a certain skull since the people who ran a lot of VTD are likely to intersect with skull havers even if they are not all 8k patrons. Or an announcement that plague year bits will be included in a future 4c of some kind.

+1 to all of this.

Rob F wrote: Will new 5X, 10X, etc, TG Tokens be making an appearance this year?

So how 'bout those Go-Go's , huh? They sure were awesome.

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote: I recommend increasing Golden Fleece or announcing a new monster bit transmute soon. VDT is awesome, but I am running out of room to store monster bits.

My opinion, which may be an outlier, is that playing TD should be a more important part of the the transmute process.

We literally just spent the day fighting AGAINST a change to the recipes increasing the number of Golden Fleece used. Please do not suggest increasing it.

Arcanist what rational was given to reducing the GF requirements, it seems with more opportunities to play this would be one area where transmutes are not supply constrained, what am I missing?

Basically it was a 60% increase from previous formulas.

The truth is if you make it to expensive to make a legendary and relics it will effect token orders.
If I do a 8k order and the trade goods effectively make 25% or 50% less stuff, I am less likely to make that order.

Increasing the goods really feels like gate keeping and will in my opinion negatively impact the game in the future, so please don’t increase the AG, EB, and OE

Increasing AG, EB, and or OE should be done with a larger decrease to steel and hide. Hide is especially limited, “only” coming 40 to an 8k order, and only available in boosters. At least AG, EB, and OE are available to transmute out of treasure pulls.

Thanks to everyone commenting and Druegar for bringing the Relic and Legendary recipes down from where they were. They are much more manageable now.

we could totally suck up all the monster bits...treasure map showed us the way

any MB produces a level 1 trade item...so, short an alchemist ink...here is a monster bit...

I would love to see a Lucky Traveler style transmute in 2023 tho' Having a ton of MBs and combining them into something interesting sounds fun

Druegar wrote:

Rob F wrote: Will new 5X, 10X, etc, TG Tokens be making an appearance this year?

So how 'bout those Go-Go's , huh? They sure were awesome.

so what your saying is if show up at TD headquarters and do like the picture below(playing the GoGo's song)..then you will tell us

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Rob F wrote: Will new 5X, 10X, etc, TG Tokens be making an appearance this year?

So how 'bout those Go-Go's , huh? They sure were awesome.

so what your saying is if show up at TD headquarters and do like the picture below(playing the GoGo's song)..then you will tell us

Laz the go-go dancer?