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TOPIC: Images Going to the Printer! Thanks all!

Images Going to the Printer! Thanks all! 1 year 7 months ago #85

Grizwald wrote: Also the Barbarian two handed damage bonus states Melee weapons, so there would be no bonus on throwing.



Interesting fact that was discovered today while that is the indication on the barbarian card the players handbook description mentions no such restrictions.
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Images Going to the Printer! Thanks all! 1 year 7 months ago #86

Kory wrote:

Grizwald wrote: Also the Barbarian two handed damage bonus states Melee weapons, so there would be no bonus on throwing.



Interesting fact that was discovered today while that is the indication on the barbarian card the players handbook description mentions no such restrictions.


As of Sept, 2020
"Two-Handed Damage Bonus
Barbarians are particularly adept at wielding large, heavy weapons—ones that require two hands to use. When doing so, they deal +4 Damage when they hit."

When Equipping a Mighty Ranged Weapon, or a 1H Thrown Weapon, or 2H Thrown Weapon, the Ranged Damage bonus is the same currently in the apps... Technically, Barbs should also get this bonus with Bows, Crossbows, and other 2H Ranged Weapons as stated in the Player Handbook.

"Thrown
Though thrown weapons are a ranged attack, they’re a little different from weapons that mechanically launch a projectile in that a thrown weapon’s damage is modified by the thrower’s Strength bonus.
Each individual thrown weapon can only be used once per combat. After combat concludes, your thrown weapon token(s) is returned to you."

Thrown rule states it is a Ranged Attack, not specifically that Melee Weapons are no longer Melee Weapons when Thrown. I suppose you could say they are Ranged Missile Weapons now, but they do not just receive the Ranged and Missile to Hit And Damage Bonuses, they also get STR Damage. If we have a Melee Weapon Being used in a Ranged Attack, it should receive appropriate Weapon bonuses if you have STR, Melee Attack/Weapon Damage, Ranged Attack toHit/Damage, or Thrown Attack/Weapon toHit/Damage, but not Ranged Weapon toHit/Damage. Do we have Thrown Attack/Weapon toHit/Damage Modifiers anywhere? Obviously you would not Double-stack effects of Ring of the Drake or Draco Lich Claw, similar things would still only grant their effect 1 time for the each attack. Players would still have to make choices between Enhancing Weapon,Melee, Ranged, or Missle, Bonuses... if all a player has is Melee Bonus Equipment and a Melee Weapon that can be thrown, at least they can damage if they hit. If Their equip enhances Ranged instead of STR or Melee, at least They can Hit at Ranged and do some damage.
Purely Ranged Thrown Weapons, would of course not receive Melee weapon bonuses from Tokens.
Very few Thrown Ranged or Melee Weapons have Returning, so this issue only comes up once per battle anyway without the ability to spend a standard action to pick up thrown weapons, or carrying multiple Thrown Weapons. At which points some stats may change mid battle anyway.

I feel Clarification from on High on these two rules beyond "They are Thrown" would be greatly appreciated. I know It's sometimes about making classes do what they "Traditionally" do, but variations in play style across all levels of play would be encouraged if we allowed the above to happen, we'd see more thrown weapons in combat if they had the same potential for damage output at least as their melee counterpart. If all someone has is a Melee Thrown Weapon, they can now be more useful... They would still need enough Ranged to-Hit and as any Barb or Melee Class knows.... That can be tough even with high level tokens, and you usually have to give up melee strength anyway for stronger Range. I can't think of any good reason why this shouldn't be a thing....

Barbs can't hit the broad side of a barn but when they do they should hit that Whole side... you know?

Parting Thought... 2H +2 Slingshot of Last Resort.... Ranged, Counts as a Shuriken. If Thrown: Max Damage + Natural 20 Kills Monster.


Last thought... For those who argue that Thrown Melee Weapons are no longer touching the player to get the bonuses from player equipment... Neither are any other Thrown Weapons, nor is any Ammunition from Ranged Missile Weapons, yet we still apply token powers to them.. ToHit and/or Damage Boosters these days affect, Ranged Attacks and Weapons, Missile Attacks and Weapons,,Melee Attacks and Weapons, but Rarely Thrown Attacks or Weapons. All paths require making choices....I don't think this would end up making any class more OP than another. Specially with all the Either/Or Choice Tokens Coming.

More Variation is good. Encouraging people to use Thrown Melee Weapons is good. Encouraging New Development of new Thrown Weapon and Enhancement Tokens is good. Having Fun and feeling effective in battle is good, even if you still only hit because the combination of Prayer, Bless, Bardsong, Potion of Cat's Grace, and/or Bull's Strength helped you hit or do any damage at all.

Barbs: You're either complaining that they can't hit anything above their head, or that they didn't leave any monster for you to poke.

Note: This Post has changed a few times over the course of a few hours as my thoughts coalesced and became more clear, or not?
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Images Going to the Printer! Thanks all! 1 year 7 months ago #87

edwin wrote: Comparing to 2021 UR Axe of the Dwarvish Kings. Axe average damage is 9.5 and +2 in hands of a Dwarf Fighter and +0 in the hands of a Barbarian, Fighter and Paladin and limited to melee.

Rare +1 Heavy Triton Trident average damage with whetstone is 7.3 and +2 in the hands of a Barbarian, Dwarf Fighter and Fighter and can be used in melee or thrown.

More limited in classes that can use it, damage is 2 lower on average and +2 more to hit for classes that can use it beside the Dwarf Fighter..

The axe of the dwarvish kings deals more damage than the relic +3 slayer sword, so it’s good that it does not have any +hit for classes other than dwarf fighter.

In the comparison of the Trident to the Axe of the dwarvish Kings, You’re also comparing a 2H weapon to a 1H weapon. A more appropriate comparison would be to the +2 death cleaver, which has similar class restrictions and deals 9.8 damage.

On a rare in rare comparison, the trident deals less damage than the +1 Heavy Claymore, so there was no melee creep. Ranged wise, there aren’t many thrown weapons in total, so I’m not sure this is a problem as a thrown weapon either.
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