TOPIC: 2022 Uncommon Final Kind of

The penalty in Ioun Stone Jade Sphere now seems too punishing. I think -2 to will saves was enough. With the negatives on both stones at -2, you could offset with Iron Will items to come out even. That locks a slot for head or ring that dex users may not have otherwise locked.

As is, you’re looking at 2-3 slots to offset that penalty. Will is potentially the most damaging save due to the inability to act. -2 to Will seemed appropriate.

Marc D wrote: The penalty in Ioun Stone Jade Sphere now seems too punishing. I think -2 to will saves was enough. With the negatives on both stones at -2, you could offset with Iron Will items to come out even. That locks a slot for head or ring that dex users may not have otherwise locked.

As is, you’re looking at 2-3 slots to offset that penalty. Will is potentially the most damaging save due to the inability to act. -2 to Will seemed appropriate.

On the flip side, Earcuff of retort covers the most punishing will save effects in one ear slot.

-3 seems fine for a +Dex IS

Potion Polymorph (Sea Hag): still strictly better than the still-in-print Potion Polymorph (Triton) , assuming a sea hag can breath underwater.

Sacred Cup: the Captain's Cup and +2 Mug of Battle in this set are offhand items; seems inconsistent that this cup isn't also offhand. That said, if it is an offhand item, as an item that impacts the party card (+heals are written down), this would need to be equipped for the entire game. If the intent is to make this slotless, it probably shouldn't be a cup.

Thanks all. I made the Cup into a Humble Cup that is slotless but only usable by folks who don't equip an UR.

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks all. I made the Cup into a Humble Cup that is slotless but only usable by folks who don't equip an UR.

Nice Jeff!

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks all. I made the Cup into a Humble Cup that is slotless but only usable by folks who don't equip an UR.

I like that! more love for the non-UR crowd!

Endgame wrote:

Marc D wrote: The penalty in Ioun Stone Jade Sphere now seems too punishing. I think -2 to will saves was enough. With the negatives on both stones at -2, you could offset with Iron Will items to come out even. That locks a slot for head or ring that dex users may not have otherwise locked.

As is, you’re looking at 2-3 slots to offset that penalty. Will is potentially the most damaging save due to the inability to act. -2 to Will seemed appropriate.

On the flip side, Earcuff of retort covers the most punishing will save effects in one ear slot.

-3 seems fine for a +Dex IS

Rare save rings are +4.

So +1 DEX in an Ioun is so good it costs you 3/4 of a rare ring?

Too much in my opinion.

Raven wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks all. I made the Cup into a Humble Cup that is slotless but only usable by folks who don't equip an UR.

I like that! more love for the non-UR crowd!

So I'm fine in all legendary/relics right. Seriously might want to make it "folks who don't equip an UR of higher"

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Marc D wrote: The penalty in Ioun Stone Jade Sphere now seems too punishing. I think -2 to will saves was enough. With the negatives on both stones at -2, you could offset with Iron Will items to come out even. That locks a slot for head or ring that dex users may not have otherwise locked.

As is, you’re looking at 2-3 slots to offset that penalty. Will is potentially the most damaging save due to the inability to act. -2 to Will seemed appropriate.

On the flip side, Earcuff of retort covers the most punishing will save effects in one ear slot.

-3 seems fine for a +Dex IS

Rare save rings are +4.

So +1 DEX in an Ioun is so good it costs you 3/4 of a rare ring?

Too much in my opinion.

Compare against ruined bliss Bull armor (-2 all saves), fae moonlight or fae starlight armor?

Cloak of the Scoundrel says Fighter Only, while everything else just says the class.

Crown of Evocation says Wizard Only, while everything else just says the class.

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Marc D wrote: The penalty in Ioun Stone Jade Sphere now seems too punishing. I think -2 to will saves was enough. With the negatives on both stones at -2, you could offset with Iron Will items to come out even. That locks a slot for head or ring that dex users may not have otherwise locked.

As is, you’re looking at 2-3 slots to offset that penalty. Will is potentially the most damaging save due to the inability to act. -2 to Will seemed appropriate.

On the flip side, Earcuff of retort covers the most punishing will save effects in one ear slot.

-3 seems fine for a +Dex IS

Rare save rings are +4.

So +1 DEX in an Ioun is so good it costs you 3/4 of a rare ring?

Too much in my opinion.

Compare against ruined bliss Bull armor (-2 all saves), fae moonlight or fae starlight armor?

Shirt of Brawn is +1 STR and no appreciable downside unless you equip a second -1 Dex item. Artificer/Dark Gnome gloves swap CON/DEX 1:1. The Fae armors are bad tokens that fit a theme.

Ruined Bliss Bull was probably too punishing as well, but at least provides AC and melee hit/damage for your trouble. Plus -2 to all is a bit easier to overcome than -3 to the one save governed by a stat (WIS) that only has one in-print token that affects it.

Is it the IS slot that's making this so powerful that it needs a massive penalty in your mind? Is 3/4 of a rare ring really worth +.5 ranged To Hit and +.5 Reflex? Wouldn't it be better to have this be more of a puzzle: I can equip this, then seek out that +2 Will save earcuff from 2020 and come out even, and it's only a couple bucks... or get this fancy blue shirt and come out a bit ahead!

Marc D wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Marc D wrote: The penalty in Ioun Stone Jade Sphere now seems too punishing. I think -2 to will saves was enough. With the negatives on both stones at -2, you could offset with Iron Will items to come out even. That locks a slot for head or ring that dex users may not have otherwise locked.

As is, you’re looking at 2-3 slots to offset that penalty. Will is potentially the most damaging save due to the inability to act. -2 to Will seemed appropriate.

On the flip side, Earcuff of retort covers the most punishing will save effects in one ear slot.

-3 seems fine for a +Dex IS

Rare save rings are +4.

So +1 DEX in an Ioun is so good it costs you 3/4 of a rare ring?

Too much in my opinion.

Compare against ruined bliss Bull armor (-2 all saves), fae moonlight or fae starlight armor?

Shirt of Brawn is +1 STR and no appreciable downside unless you equip a second -1 Dex item. Artificer/Dark Gnome gloves swap CON/DEX 1:1. The Fae armors are bad tokens that fit a theme.

Ruined Bliss Bull was probably too punishing as well, but at least provides AC and melee hit/damage for your trouble. Plus -2 to all is a bit easier to overcome than -3 to the one save governed by a stat (WIS) that only has one in-print token that affects it.

Is it the IS slot that's making this so powerful that it needs a massive penalty in your mind? Is 3/4 of a rare ring really worth +.5 ranged To Hit and +.5 Reflex? Wouldn't it be better to have this be more of a puzzle: I can equip this, then seek out that +2 Will save earcuff from 2020 and come out even, and it's only a couple bucks... or get this fancy blue shirt and come out a bit ahead!

Past precedent is that attributes in ioun stones only come from Vol tokens +2 for full time and +1 for half time. To make the attribute accessible all the way down to a in pack uncommon seems like a big step, even with a penalty. Making it a bonus to a single save instead (ex, +1 ref at uncommon, +2 or +3 ref at rare) seems much more in step from what we have seen in pack based Iouns.