TOPIC: Suggestion: GP on more items

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Due to some definitions this could get sticky - for example Aragonite is made up of "rare weapons and armor" - I would hate to see "Gilded Breastplate - 200 GP - +6 AC" exist because it's clearly armor, but would transmute to gold.

I only suggest we do this to items that would go into Planks/Silk/Stones. The trade goods that come from armor and weapons are comparatively stable in my mind. Ink/Parchment/Munitions likewise don't seem to be good candidates to be GP alternatives. But any time we have a new slot or mystery token, they seem to wind up turning into Planks/Silk/Stone. And completion tokens (when not used for things like Reavers) also almost always wind up turning into those Planks/Silk/Stone.

Hopefully recipes will be adjusted so that Planks/Silk/Stone aren't in such a state of continual glut.

Mike Steele wrote:
Hopefully recipes will be adjusted so that Planks/Silk/Stone aren't in such a state of continual glut.

Unfortunately this just raises the barrier of entry more for a newer player.

I'm fine with things getting a bit more expensive over the years. I just don't want to alienate new players as we raise prices.

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can see where Fiddy's coming from but I agree with Matthew, unless there's a compelling reason for Tokens to transmute into multiple Trade classifications I say let things be. Historically I think only Plank has been high on the supply side. Stone used to go for a buck and now it's in more demand, I could use some more myself whereas in years past I used to have a ton. Same for Silk, used to be pricier and harder to get but now it's like Plank. Easiest thing to still do is bump up the recipes if we feel there's a glut.

Bumping the recipes has gotten rather extreme recently.

I would prefer that sets have a nearly fixed amount of TG and if it looks like there will be extra X, change one or more of the C tokens to a GP token.

Oh, too much silk in the final final tokens? Change the +2 cloak of resistance to the 100gp jeweled +2 cloak of resistance. In this case, the cloak no longer transmutes to silk, but to gold bar. The glut of silk in that set is fixed, players get a more steady supply of gold, everyone wins.

Agreed on the bumping of recipes being extreme. The cost of making a relic this year is up over $100 more than making one two years ago. That number hurt to see, honestly.

Just curious, you mention over $100 increase for this year's relics over the last few years. How did you come up with that? On the secondary market the prices of Relics over the last few years seems to be about the same.

For one aspect, look at the raw number of trade goods it takes to build a relic (total count works). Observe how is has grown annually since 2018.

Price out buying the trade goods from TD tavern for blessed redoubt helm vs necklace of the sneak vs sacred necklace. Price it out again for auction average TG price.

This year, auction average price has dropped from 2019, however we now regularly see “augmented” auctions that add extra stuff to the auction without changing the funding goal. If you look at the TG prices for unaugumented auctions only, you’ll find that TG prices have not dropped at the same rate that transmute costs have gone up. I believe we are getting to the point where a 1k order will not guarantee enough TG to build a relic.

The one issue I have with this analysis (meaning looking at the current price of trade goods and adding everything up) is that today's prices weren't the same as what they were years ago when the older relics were being made. Silk used to go for triple or more than what it is now. Gold, oil, aragonite and others were also going for more. Maybe the new relics are more expensive, but maybe not as much as people think. Also, just my gut, but I do feel it's easier to pick up a completed relic nowadays on the secondary market and through auctions then it was a few years back. Same with Legendaries. Some have been selling on ebay in the $800 range. Years ago you couldn't find them for less then 1K.

The prices I quoted (~$415 in 2019 and ~$525 in 2021) were with those individual year's values (I wanted to use contemporaneous here, but it makes it sound like I was being condescending, but in reality, I just think it's a fun word). The 2019 would cost ~$395 at today's prices, if you're curious.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:
Hopefully recipes will be adjusted so that Planks/Silk/Stone aren't in such a state of continual glut.

Unfortunately this just raises the barrier of entry more for a newer player.

I'm fine with things getting a bit more expensive over the years. I just don't want to alienate new players as we raise prices.

I think if GP items lost the ability to be exchanged for a trade good, you could much more easily control getting too high of a QTY on silk / stone / plank in a typical 8k.

In the 2021 set, you could have made:
200GP Coffer
300GP Chest
100GP cloak of the 3rd eye
100GP charm of the pixie
100GP wand of the fire snake
100GP FoP : Saluki
100GP Crown of Focus

With this layout, the need to increase the stone cost of transmutes would have been reduced because 2 stone items were switched to GP. Plank and silk would also be reduced.

If you wanted to further reduce stone, both uncommon treasure bags could be reduced to 100 GP and the ring of the heavens could become 50gp.

In the future, we could open up one more “playable item” in the set. We could drop down to 1 dedicated GP item (500?) and do 5x 100 GP playable rares, and have one more rare item without GP value.

Last few years I have been running short on DP, MH and PS. AP and MS are where I have a glut.

Change MS and AP tokens to GP would help balance things out better for me.

Make all rare and uncommon scrolls be GP or AP. Make treasure box only tokens that convert to MS be GP or MS. Have Rare be 125 GP or ______ and Uncommon be 50 GP or _____.

edwin wrote: Last few years I have been running short on DP, MH and PS. AP and MS are where I have a glut.

Change MS and AP tokens to GP would help balance things out better for me.

Make all rare and uncommon scrolls be GP or AP. Make treasure box only tokens that convert to MS be GP or MS. Have Rare be 125 GP or ______ and Uncommon be 50 GP or _____.

Maybe this is a good example of why not to tie GP values to tokens that can be turned in for Trade Items. Different people have different Trade Item gluts. You have an AP glut, but I'm always short on AP. Most people seem to have a DP glut, but you're short on those. If there are recipes this year that focus heavily on MS, then that might be in short supply for most people.

That said, a Rare 200 GP +2 Turkey Leg could be awesome.

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote: Last few years I have been running short on DP, MH and PS. AP and MS are where I have a glut.

Change MS and AP tokens to GP would help balance things out better for me.

Make all rare and uncommon scrolls be GP or AP. Make treasure box only tokens that convert to MS be GP or MS. Have Rare be 125 GP or ______ and Uncommon be 50 GP or _____.

Maybe this is a good example of why not to tie GP values to tokens that can be turned in for Trade Items. Different people have different Trade Item gluts. You have an AP glut, but I'm always short on AP. Most people seem to have a DP glut, but you're short on those. If there are recipes this year that focus heavily on MS, then that might be in short supply for most people.

That said, a Rare 200 GP +2 Turkey Leg could be awesome.

Yeap on the trade goods.

Maybe even a transmute to a 3 or 4 star Turkey leg with special powers like returning.

edwin wrote: Last few years I have been running short on DP, MH and PS. AP and MS are where I have a glut.

Change MS and AP tokens to GP would help balance things out better for me.

Make all rare and uncommon scrolls be GP or AP. Make treasure box only tokens that convert to MS be GP or MS. Have Rare be 125 GP or ______ and Uncommon be 50 GP or _____.

I wouldn’t recommend any consumable tokens be split with gold... at least if you ever want those consumables to be used.

Extra AP? Run a lenses of sage speed build. Our bard is using like 20 scrolls per run.

Endgame wrote:

edwin wrote: Last few years I have been running short on DP, MH and PS. AP and MS are where I have a glut.

Change MS and AP tokens to GP would help balance things out better for me.

Make all rare and uncommon scrolls be GP or AP. Make treasure box only tokens that convert to MS be GP or MS. Have Rare be 125 GP or ______ and Uncommon be 50 GP or _____.

I wouldn’t recommend any consumable tokens be split with gold... at least if you ever want those consumables to be used.

Extra AP? Run a lenses of sage speed build. Our bard is using like 20 scrolls per run.

This illustrate the different folks have different gluts on trade goods. No matter which one someone proposes to swap will have folks asking for different ones to be swapped. I would be up for significant increase in AP and MS in transmute recipes to reduce my glut. But others would prefer DP and PS.

With GP going for $13/1K in Wade's auction, it does not make sense to add GP value to the overall mix.

Maybe best to leave it as is.

edwin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

edwin wrote: Last few years I have been running short on DP, MH and PS. AP and MS are where I have a glut.

Change MS and AP tokens to GP would help balance things out better for me.

Make all rare and uncommon scrolls be GP or AP. Make treasure box only tokens that convert to MS be GP or MS. Have Rare be 125 GP or ______ and Uncommon be 50 GP or _____.

I wouldn’t recommend any consumable tokens be split with gold... at least if you ever want those consumables to be used.

Extra AP? Run a lenses of sage speed build. Our bard is using like 20 scrolls per run.

This illustrate the different folks have different gluts on trade goods. No matter which one someone proposes to swap will have folks asking for different ones to be swapped. I would be up for significant increase in AP and MS in transmute recipes to reduce my glut. But others would prefer DP and PS.

With GP going for $13/1K in Wade's auction, it does not make sense to add GP value to the overall mix.

Maybe best to leave it as is.

There's a difference between what does an individual have a glut of, and what does the treasure mix have a glut of. As GP has gone down in number of tokens in the treasure mix, the number of tokens in the treasure mix producing AP hasn't gone up, but Plank/Silk/Stone have. Every time we have a new type of token, it winds up going into one of those transmutes. And TBO tokens are almost always one of those three types as well.

"Go buy gold from auctions" is exactly what I've had to do since I can't seem to get reasonable amounts from treasure pulls. And once again, my proposal is to KEEP THE OVERALL AMOUNT OF GP THE SAME, JUST SPREAD ACROSS MORE TOKENS.

Fiddy wrote:

edwin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

edwin wrote: Last few years I have been running short on DP, MH and PS. AP and MS are where I have a glut.

Change MS and AP tokens to GP would help balance things out better for me.

Make all rare and uncommon scrolls be GP or AP. Make treasure box only tokens that convert to MS be GP or MS. Have Rare be 125 GP or ______ and Uncommon be 50 GP or _____.

I wouldn’t recommend any consumable tokens be split with gold... at least if you ever want those consumables to be used.

Extra AP? Run a lenses of sage speed build. Our bard is using like 20 scrolls per run.

This illustrate the different folks have different gluts on trade goods. No matter which one someone proposes to swap will have folks asking for different ones to be swapped. I would be up for significant increase in AP and MS in transmute recipes to reduce my glut. But others would prefer DP and PS.

With GP going for $13/1K in Wade's auction, it does not make sense to add GP value to the overall mix.

Maybe best to leave it as is.

There's a difference between what does an individual have a glut of, and what does the treasure mix have a glut of. As GP has gone down in number of tokens in the treasure mix, the number of tokens in the treasure mix producing AP hasn't gone up, but Plank/Silk/Stone have. Every time we have a new type of token, it winds up going into one of those transmutes. And TBO tokens are almost always one of those three types as well.

"Go buy gold from auctions" is exactly what I've had to do since I can't seem to get reasonable amounts from treasure pulls. And once again, my proposal is to KEEP THE OVERALL AMOUNT OF GP THE SAME, JUST SPREAD ACROSS MORE TOKENS.

+1!

Fiddy wrote:

edwin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

edwin wrote: Last few years I have been running short on DP, MH and PS. AP and MS are where I have a glut.

Change MS and AP tokens to GP would help balance things out better for me.

Make all rare and uncommon scrolls be GP or AP. Make treasure box only tokens that convert to MS be GP or MS. Have Rare be 125 GP or ______ and Uncommon be 50 GP or _____.

I wouldn’t recommend any consumable tokens be split with gold... at least if you ever want those consumables to be used.

Extra AP? Run a lenses of sage speed build. Our bard is using like 20 scrolls per run.

This illustrate the different folks have different gluts on trade goods. No matter which one someone proposes to swap will have folks asking for different ones to be swapped. I would be up for significant increase in AP and MS in transmute recipes to reduce my glut. But others would prefer DP and PS.

With GP going for $13/1K in Wade's auction, it does not make sense to add GP value to the overall mix.

Maybe best to leave it as is.

There's a difference between what does an individual have a glut of, and what does the treasure mix have a glut of. As GP has gone down in number of tokens in the treasure mix, the number of tokens in the treasure mix producing AP hasn't gone up, but Plank/Silk/Stone have. Every time we have a new type of token, it winds up going into one of those transmutes. And TBO tokens are almost always one of those three types as well.

"Go buy gold from auctions" is exactly what I've had to do since I can't seem to get reasonable amounts from treasure pulls. And once again, my proposal is to KEEP THE OVERALL AMOUNT OF GP THE SAME, JUST SPREAD ACROSS MORE TOKENS.

I am fine with less MS tokens. But don't decrease DP and PS tokens.