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TOPIC: A way to sidebar some items.

A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #13

Consider how powerful having access to a variety of situational benefits would be:
Ring of Spell Swapping - not needed all the time but has a dramatic increase in overall caster power
Crown of Elemental Mastery - matching damage types to target can be the difference from spells having minimal effect to increased effect
Cloak of Blending - not being attacked while you are healing, etc.
Charm of Quick Strike - not needed after initiative in any combat but grants an extra round of attacks
Figurines - since their powers are usually only usable once, it would mean access to virtually all of them
Fizzy lifting pack - be able to attack flying whenever needed (or variants on boots, etc that allow the same)
Cabal set - switch away to damage items after the first round of double casting

- Looking at the URs, this kind of item should probably be limited to below UR for the swapping. If it allowed URs, it would need to be slotted and difficult to make.

There are a ton of situational rares that are big - I still think it would be worth a back slot (since brooching is relatively easy to get now most characters at NM+ have 2 back slots.) Yes, it means sacrificing something like a cloak of shadowskin but there are tons of cases where that flexibility would be more valuable.

Fred
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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #14

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Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: The official rule is no Swapping gear after coaching (allows for verification of tokens without taking the DMs time)
Note this was not always the rule, but has been for a long, long time.

It's the reason for the old text on token for Ring of riches.

tokendb.com/token/ring-of-riches/

That said, isn't a lot of this covered by psychic power?

It's a fun idea, and I agree, giving up a slot for it seems a lot.


Some 1/game manner of "Activate item" could make for an interesting replacement power for the skull after the event is done.
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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #15

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: The official rule is no Swapping gear after coaching (allows for verification of tokens without taking the DMs time)
Note this was not always the rule, but has been for a long, long time.

It's the reason for the old text on token for Ring of riches.

tokendb.com/token/ring-of-riches/

That said, isn't a lot of this covered by psychic power?

It's a fun idea, and I agree, giving up a slot for it seems a lot.


Some 1/game manner of "Activate item" could make for an interesting replacement power for the skull after the event is done.


I like that idea a lot. 1/game activate an item that doesn't impact the party card (let's keep the DM's lives simpler) is a really nice ability. Thematically, it takes some creative thinking to visualize how the skull helps you (I'm picturing it creating a smoky body that it places itself on then that body uses the item for your benefit.)

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058

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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #16

Fred K wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: The official rule is no Swapping gear after coaching (allows for verification of tokens without taking the DMs time)
Note this was not always the rule, but has been for a long, long time.

It's the reason for the old text on token for Ring of riches.

tokendb.com/token/ring-of-riches/

That said, isn't a lot of this covered by psychic power?

It's a fun idea, and I agree, giving up a slot for it seems a lot.


Some 1/game manner of "Activate item" could make for an interesting replacement power for the skull after the event is done.


I like that idea a lot. 1/game activate an item that doesn't impact the party card (let's keep the DM's lives simpler) is a really nice ability. Thematically, it takes some creative thinking to visualize how the skull helps you (I'm picturing it creating a smoky body that it places itself on then that body uses the item for your benefit.)

Fred

Basically for the casters, I think it would be Activate RoSS, equip 3 damage or healing rings.

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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #17

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Endgame wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: The official rule is no Swapping gear after coaching (allows for verification of tokens without taking the DMs time)
Note this was not always the rule, but has been for a long, long time.

It's the reason for the old text on token for Ring of riches.

tokendb.com/token/ring-of-riches/

That said, isn't a lot of this covered by psychic power?

It's a fun idea, and I agree, giving up a slot for it seems a lot.


Some 1/game manner of "Activate item" could make for an interesting replacement power for the skull after the event is done.


I like that idea a lot. 1/game activate an item that doesn't impact the party card (let's keep the DM's lives simpler) is a really nice ability. Thematically, it takes some creative thinking to visualize how the skull helps you (I'm picturing it creating a smoky body that it places itself on then that body uses the item for your benefit.)

Fred

Basically for the casters, I think it would be Activate RoSS, equip 3 damage or healing rings.


Equipping a damage or healing item would impact the party card so I think it would kind of go against the spirit of access to quirky abilities. Honestly even activated abilities like Ring of spell storing probably shouldn't count either. If it were me, I would limit it to non-weapon items with "always on" abilities, maybe even of rare or lower.
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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #18

Don’t hitchhiking ghosts already do this for several slots?

I don’t see a good way of enforcing a “doesn’t effect the party card” rule, example:

Equip Ring of the Drake, Ring of Quick Blessing.


Sidebar: Ring of Spell Storing.

The sidebar item doesn’t impact the party card, and neither does one of the equipped rings.

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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #19

Matthew Hayward wrote: Don’t hitchhiking ghosts already do this for several slots?

I don’t see a good way of enforcing a “doesn’t effect the party card” rule, example:

Equip Ring of the Drake, Ring of Quick Blessing.


Sidebar: Ring of Spell Storing.

The sidebar item doesn’t impact the party card, and neither does one of the equipped rings.


I would would think Ring of the Drake is 100% out as swappable because it does affect the melee/ranged damage even if they are not using those bonus'. I do think that there are ways to definitely boost your DMG output if that is what you are getting at though, as there are quite a few 1/game use items that can pack a punch or even safe a character from death. The example I have is for Monks GoFF vs Gloves of Deflection. Depending on how the coach writes it on the card, neither affect the party card, and now they can be more effective in ranged and/or if it is a ranged creature they deflect their attacks back at them for free damage. While both are older tokens and not everybody has them, it is just food for thought of how powerful this would be.

With all that said, I really like this idea, but I do think it should take a slot due to the potential power it provides, as well as limited on the types of tokens it can let you swap. I like the idea of letting you swap for weapons when you find out the monster reduces a type, but I would say you would have to take the lesser +to hit modifier in coaching and have to show the tokens you use with the swapper, but that becomes a whole mess of honor system vs cheating and is best not to go there and give the idea somebody might use it to cheat. You could potentially also limit it to omit 1/game items, but I am guessing that will be some of the biggest draw to something like this.

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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #20

Tiaolang wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Don’t hitchhiking ghosts already do this for several slots?

I don’t see a good way of enforcing a “doesn’t effect the party card” rule, example:

Equip Ring of the Drake, Ring of Quick Blessing.


Sidebar: Ring of Spell Storing.

The sidebar item doesn’t impact the party card, and neither does one of the equipped rings.


I would would think Ring of the Drake is 100% out as swappable because it does affect the melee/ranged damage even if they are not using those bonus'. I do think that there are ways to definitely boost your DMG output if that is what you are getting at though, as there are quite a few 1/game use items that can pack a punch or even safe a character from death. The example I have is for Monks GoFF vs Gloves of Deflection. Depending on how the coach writes it on the card, neither affect the party card, and now they can be more effective in ranged and/or if it is a ranged creature they deflect their attacks back at them for free damage. While both are older tokens and not everybody has them, it is just food for thought of how powerful this would be.

With all that said, I really like this idea, but I do think it should take a slot due to the potential power it provides, as well as limited on the types of tokens it can let you swap. I like the idea of letting you swap for weapons when you find out the monster reduces a type, but I would say you would have to take the lesser +to hit modifier in coaching and have to show the tokens you use with the swapper, but that becomes a whole mess of honor system vs cheating and is best not to go there and give the idea somebody might use it to cheat. You could potentially also limit it to omit 1/game items, but I am guessing that will be some of the biggest draw to something like this.


In this scenario the player will argue they are swapping in and out ring of quick blessing and ring of spell storing, neither of which impact the party card.

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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #21

The spirit of this is for quirky one off abilities. I really appreciate all the feedback especially Fred because all of the meta is EXACTLY what I want to avoid. I do not want this so people can squeeze more healing or damage or whatever from a slotless item, but more of a solution to a problem sort of thing. I would actually expect this to be used in puzzle rooms or beginning or end of combat situations. To negate darkness, lack of air, falling damage, restraint, prevent damage not to increase damage. The only time I would expect use in combat would be to counter some quirk that the monster(s) have. Maybe to add or change a damage type since this beast is immune to fire, allow ranged attacks on a flying monster or barbed monster. Negate fall damage or breathing damage.
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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #22

C. J. wrote:

Marc D wrote: So, basically the Diablo III Kanai’s cube?


Wouldn’t want it to consume the item, just borrow the situational effect.


Why not consume the item? For a powerful enough effect to metagame your way around a difficult encounter, seems like a decent trade off.

The abilities you mention like negate magical darkness, sustain without air, avoid falling damage, etc., are all trade offs for more powerful tokens, right? Like, Drow Assassin Armor locks you out of Lucky, Redoubt, Defender, etc. So why not consume them if you want the benefit without the opportunity cost?

I'm also hesitant on things that provide workaround for puzzles other than solving the dang things. It feels cheap to me when a token or other ability flat out bypasses the challenge of a puzzle room. This isn't a request for more "eldritch fire" effects or something, but rather an acknowledgement that combat is where I'd expect many of these abilities to come up, with the exception of an effect specifically accounted for in a puzzle design. Like "immune to darkness" giving you a special light for the room.

So, suggestion is maybe something like:
C.J's Cube:
Consume C/UC/R item and 100/200/500 gold to gain non-party card effects of item for game

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A way to sidebar some items. 1 year 4 months ago #23

Marc D wrote:

C. J. wrote:

Marc D wrote: So, basically the Diablo III Kanai’s cube?


Wouldn’t want it to consume the item, just borrow the situational effect.


Why not consume the item? For a powerful enough effect to metagame your way around a difficult encounter, seems like a decent trade off.

The abilities you mention like negate magical darkness, sustain without air, avoid falling damage, etc., are all trade offs for more powerful tokens, right? Like, Drow Assassin Armor locks you out of Lucky, Redoubt, Defender, etc. So why not consume them if you want the benefit without the opportunity cost?

I'm also hesitant on things that provide workaround for puzzles other than solving the dang things. It feels cheap to me when a token or other ability flat out bypasses the challenge of a puzzle room. This isn't a request for more "eldritch fire" effects or something, but rather an acknowledgement that combat is where I'd expect many of these abilities to come up, with the exception of an effect specifically accounted for in a puzzle design. Like "immune to darkness" giving you a special light for the room.

So, suggestion is maybe something like:
C.J's Cube:
Consume C/UC/R item and 100/200/500 gold to gain non-party card effects of item for game


Can we just get a rare oil that grants protection from magical darkness? Probably uncommon level actually.
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