Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Token Images Going to Print! < No Longer True!

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #37

  • NightGod
  • NightGod's Avatar
  • Away
  • 8th Level
  • Supporter
  • It's only push damage...how bad could it be?!
  • Posts: 259

edwin wrote:

NightGod wrote:

BrainScan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thinking about Wizard potential damage. Let's assume that a Wizard has 51 HP, and 35 spell damage bonus, as well as that spell damages on the card will double (per Jeff).

A Wizard with the Relic or Legendary can cast a 40 point lightning storm, 35 points bonus spell damage, 100 points of Channel damage (bringing HP to 1) for 175 points as a Free Action. The Wizard can also cast a 36 point scorching ray plus 35 points bonus spell damage for another 71 points of damage as a Standard Action. That is 246 points of damage in one round by one Wizard.

Yes, I am also slightly concerned that we didn't think to put an upper limit on the amount of HP per channel. Between the two new Ioun Stones and the 4* Bead that could be 20-25 additional hit points available to a wizard trying to max out HP.

There was a version that had HP caps on it (the one just before Jeff decided to change the MEC), but it didn't pan out because it ended up being pages of damage charts and bickering over build minutiae.


Be interesting how many wizards want to run with clerics and paladins and how many are going to stock up on healing.

My son's SO just started playing and she loves running a druid, so I expect I'll be bugging her for heals every chance I get :P
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #38

NightGod wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: Mage Medallion and AA-MM confuse me in this regard.

Either, you have to carry over MEC's once per room restriction when channeling hp into damage or it doesn't appear there's any restriction on how many times you can channel hp into dmg. If there is the 1 channel/room restriction built in from MEC into Mage Medallion, then the wording should be much less awkward. "As MEC but 2 pts dmg for each 1 hp channeled. You may use a different Mage Power each rd. (3 Mage Powers/room)"

"Different" should be able to limit Mage Power uses in combination with paranthetical restriction. If you can channel more than once per combat, Pelor help us.

Presumably, that will all get cleared up once Jeff has the time he asked for to clarify exactly how he intends it to work.


Yep. Any discussion at this point is just yelling into the ether. Until we have actual understanding of the design intent we can't very well discuss the implications.
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #39

Mike Steele wrote:

BrainScan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thinking about Wizard potential damage. Let's assume that a Wizard has 51 HP, and 35 spell damage bonus, as well as that spell damages on the card will double (per Jeff).

A Wizard with the Relic or Legendary can cast a 40 point lightning storm, 35 points bonus spell damage, 100 points of Channel damage (bringing HP to 1) for 175 points as a Free Action. The Wizard can also cast a 36 point scorching ray plus 35 points bonus spell damage for another 71 points of damage as a Standard Action. That is 246 points of damage in one round by one Wizard.

Yes, I am also slightly concerned that we didn't think to put an upper limit on the amount of HP per channel. Between the two new Ioun Stones and the 4* Bead that could be 20-25 additional hit points available to a wizard trying to max out HP.


I agree, it's likely a Wizard could get over the 51 HP in my example.


Jeff did mention he was going to try and balance the legendaries after they all go to print. This may be one that gets less powerful. I would prefer to see some power removed, so that the class card has more room to be improved.

With a cleric in the party the wizard can blow himself up multiple times for silly damage. This doesn’t seem like a good design.
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #40

OrionW wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

BrainScan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thinking about Wizard potential damage. Let's assume that a Wizard has 51 HP, and 35 spell damage bonus, as well as that spell damages on the card will double (per Jeff).

A Wizard with the Relic or Legendary can cast a 40 point lightning storm, 35 points bonus spell damage, 100 points of Channel damage (bringing HP to 1) for 175 points as a Free Action. The Wizard can also cast a 36 point scorching ray plus 35 points bonus spell damage for another 71 points of damage as a Standard Action. That is 246 points of damage in one round by one Wizard.

Yes, I am also slightly concerned that we didn't think to put an upper limit on the amount of HP per channel. Between the two new Ioun Stones and the 4* Bead that could be 20-25 additional hit points available to a wizard trying to max out HP.


I agree, it's likely a Wizard could get over the 51 HP in my example.


Jeff did mention he was going to try and balance the legendaries after they all go to print. This may be one that gets less powerful. I would prefer to see some power removed, so that the class card has more room to be improved.

With a cleric in the party the wizard can blow himself up multiple times for silly damage. This doesn’t seem like a good design.


But it does exactly mesh with his high risk high reward glass canon design theory for Wizards.

Let's reserve judgement until the token comes out and the class designs are over so we can examine what it actually does to things.
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #41

NightGod wrote:

edwin wrote:

NightGod wrote:

BrainScan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thinking about Wizard potential damage. Let's assume that a Wizard has 51 HP, and 35 spell damage bonus, as well as that spell damages on the card will double (per Jeff).

A Wizard with the Relic or Legendary can cast a 40 point lightning storm, 35 points bonus spell damage, 100 points of Channel damage (bringing HP to 1) for 175 points as a Free Action. The Wizard can also cast a 36 point scorching ray plus 35 points bonus spell damage for another 71 points of damage as a Standard Action. That is 246 points of damage in one round by one Wizard.

Yes, I am also slightly concerned that we didn't think to put an upper limit on the amount of HP per channel. Between the two new Ioun Stones and the 4* Bead that could be 20-25 additional hit points available to a wizard trying to max out HP.

There was a version that had HP caps on it (the one just before Jeff decided to change the MEC), but it didn't pan out because it ended up being pages of damage charts and bickering over build minutiae.


Be interesting how many wizards want to run with clerics and paladins and how many are going to stock up on healing.

My son's SO just started playing and she loves running a druid, so I expect I'll be bugging her for heals every chance I get :P


You better get her the cleric relic so she can heal you with free actions and still do other things.
this is not a signature.
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #42

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

BrainScan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thinking about Wizard potential damage. Let's assume that a Wizard has 51 HP, and 35 spell damage bonus, as well as that spell damages on the card will double (per Jeff).

A Wizard with the Relic or Legendary can cast a 40 point lightning storm, 35 points bonus spell damage, 100 points of Channel damage (bringing HP to 1) for 175 points as a Free Action. The Wizard can also cast a 36 point scorching ray plus 35 points bonus spell damage for another 71 points of damage as a Standard Action. That is 246 points of damage in one round by one Wizard.

Yes, I am also slightly concerned that we didn't think to put an upper limit on the amount of HP per channel. Between the two new Ioun Stones and the 4* Bead that could be 20-25 additional hit points available to a wizard trying to max out HP.


I agree, it's likely a Wizard could get over the 51 HP in my example.


Jeff did mention he was going to try and balance the legendaries after they all go to print. This may be one that gets less powerful. I would prefer to see some power removed, so that the class card has more room to be improved.

With a cleric in the party the wizard can blow himself up multiple times for silly damage. This doesn’t seem like a good design.


But it does exactly mesh with his high risk high reward glass canon design theory for Wizards.

Let's reserve judgement until the token comes out and the class designs are over so we can examine what it actually does to things.


With a stack of Gem of Last Hope tokens a 50 hp Wizard with a zero spell damage modifier could do 100 damage for 5 rounds in every room, with just the legendary. The Wizard is going to have more than a zero spell damage modifier, the spell itself is going to do damage, and the Wizard is going to be able to use mage powers to make this more powerful.

I agree that waiting makes sense before deciding how to change the item, but it seems like a change will be required. It would likely be wise to use less specific language on the relic so that it is easier to update on tokendb.

If a cap was to be added I think it should scale with the build so 1/2 remaining hps would be better than a hard cap in my mind.

Edited: for clarity and thoughts on a cap.
Last edit: by OrionW.
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #43

Mad Evoker's Charm text:

Says "Free action"

Other tokens capitalize Action for: "Free Action"

It also mixes lowercase "hp" in the first sentence and uppercase "HP" in the second, as someone else spotted.

Other tokens seem to use lowercase "hp"
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #44

OrionW wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

BrainScan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thinking about Wizard potential damage. Let's assume that a Wizard has 51 HP, and 35 spell damage bonus, as well as that spell damages on the card will double (per Jeff).

A Wizard with the Relic or Legendary can cast a 40 point lightning storm, 35 points bonus spell damage, 100 points of Channel damage (bringing HP to 1) for 175 points as a Free Action. The Wizard can also cast a 36 point scorching ray plus 35 points bonus spell damage for another 71 points of damage as a Standard Action. That is 246 points of damage in one round by one Wizard.

Yes, I am also slightly concerned that we didn't think to put an upper limit on the amount of HP per channel. Between the two new Ioun Stones and the 4* Bead that could be 20-25 additional hit points available to a wizard trying to max out HP.


I agree, it's likely a Wizard could get over the 51 HP in my example.


Jeff did mention he was going to try and balance the legendaries after they all go to print. This may be one that gets less powerful. I would prefer to see some power removed, so that the class card has more room to be improved.

With a cleric in the party the wizard can blow himself up multiple times for silly damage. This doesn’t seem like a good design.


But it does exactly mesh with his high risk high reward glass canon design theory for Wizards.

Let's reserve judgement until the token comes out and the class designs are over so we can examine what it actually does to things.


With a stack of Gem of Last Hope tokens a 50 hp Wizard with a zero spell damage modifier could do 100 damage for 5 rounds in every room, with just the legendary. The Wizard is going to have more than a zero spell damage modifier, the spell itself is going to do damage, and the Wizard is going to be able to use mage powers to make this more powerful.

I agree that waiting makes sense before deciding how to change the item, but it seems like a change will be required. It would likely be wise to use less specific language on the relic so that it is easier to update on tokendb.

If a cap was to be added I think it should scale with the build so 1/2 remaining hps would be better than a hard cap in my mind.

Edited: for clarity and thoughts on a cap.


Channeling is only usable once per room.
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #45

Fiddy wrote: Psyferre's Spectacles: what type of damage do they do?


i'm curious as well.

10 of these and 10 reavers....300 damage to boss mob as a freebie?
Founder of Tokenholics Anonymous.
TD Patron since 2005.
Completed 20+ runs at GC 2017.
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #46

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, it is confusing that the Mage relic and Legendary refer to the MEC FA Mage Power, but it's not called a Mage Power on the MEC. It also might not be FA. Maybe just refer to it as the MEC Power? Although I guess you have to call it a Mage Power if it is going to count against the 3 or 5 per room limits.


I am confused by the printing on the Wizard Relic and Legendary. Granted I have not been following any of the discussions on these Tokens. Which means I'm looking at these Tokens as a newbie and scratching my head a bit...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #47

As I look over the Tokens this seems to be the year of the "Free Action". Reaver, Ring, Spectacles, Wizard Tokens, etc. and the more I think about it the more I worry about game balance issues. Sure, in some cases total damage might be the same but players are going to be able to deal it much faster, thus giving monsters even less chances to attack. How many times has one been on a run where a Nightmare combat lasts only a few rounds? Will monsters even get a chance to attack now with all these free actions that add to damage? Having one standard action and one non-attacking/damage free action is an inherent player power check that just got eroded somewhat. Will be interesting to see how this pans out in the dungeon. Epic Plus difficulty may need to be added..
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein
The topic has been locked.

Token Images Going to Print! 1 month 2 weeks ago #48

Rob F wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, it is confusing that the Mage relic and Legendary refer to the MEC FA Mage Power, but it's not called a Mage Power on the MEC. It also might not be FA. Maybe just refer to it as the MEC Power? Although I guess you have to call it a Mage Power if it is going to count against the 3 or 5 per room limits.


I am confused by the printing on the Wizard Relic and Legendary. Granted I have not been following any of the discussions on these Tokens. Which means I'm looking at these Tokens as a newbie and scratching my head a bit...


Jeff mentioned:

Final note: I have done a poor job of explaining the Mage Power thing, so I will not comment again until I have it written up well. Thanks for your patience.

Link: truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=640&id=251692&start=120#380762

Sounds like we'll get some clarification soon.
Playing True Dungeon since 2012.
The topic has been locked.
Time to create page: 0.198 seconds