Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: SUPER Final Transmuted Images

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #25

  • Harlax
  • Harlax's Avatar
  • Away
  • 9th Level
  • Supporter
  • Baruk Khazad!
  • Posts: 7891

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Lequinian wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Lequinian wrote: Dwarf already gets x3 on a 20.


And gets 2 less STR base versus Human. That combined with 3x crit raised the average about 5 points.


Yup. I was responding to this...

Would it be better with crit 19-20 x3


To point out that DF wouldn’t really be getting much by the suggestion.

That said we’ll need a ruling in tokendb on whether a natural 19 is x3 for DF. (Presumably not)


I thought that they'd stack per the multiple sources of critical ruling in the PHB automatically making the Dwarf a 4x if the legendary granted x3


For DF a 19 if it hits has a crit range defined by the token. So x2.

For DF a 20 and they are 5th level has a crit range defined by 20 plus the token. So x4.

This is how I have been reading it and factored into my inputs.


If that’s the case Thor’s, which has an expanded crit of 19-20 on the token, should be giving 4x on a natural 20. It is not doing so in the app.

I don’t think it’s supposed to yield a 4x. That’s my read. FWIW
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #26

Harlax wrote:

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Lequinian wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Lequinian wrote: Dwarf already gets x3 on a 20.


And gets 2 less STR base versus Human. That combined with 3x crit raised the average about 5 points.


Yup. I was responding to this...

Would it be better with crit 19-20 x3


To point out that DF wouldn’t really be getting much by the suggestion.

That said we’ll need a ruling in tokendb on whether a natural 19 is x3 for DF. (Presumably not)


I thought that they'd stack per the multiple sources of critical ruling in the PHB automatically making the Dwarf a 4x if the legendary granted x3


For DF a 19 if it hits has a crit range defined by the token. So x2.

For DF a 20 and they are 5th level has a crit range defined by 20 plus the token. So x4.

This is how I have been reading it and factored into my inputs.


If that’s the case Thor’s, which has an expanded crit of 19-20 on the token, should be giving 4x on a natural 20. It is not doing so in the app.

I don’t think it’s supposed to yield a 4x. That’s my read. FWIW


thors expands the crit range, it doesn't add a multiplier. That's why it's not 4x. If it was 19-20 x3 it'd be x4 with DF
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #27

  • Harlax
  • Harlax's Avatar
  • Away
  • 9th Level
  • Supporter
  • Baruk Khazad!
  • Posts: 7891
I very much doubt TPTB intend for Dwarves to get a 4x crit. I’ll cheerfully accept it if they do. :)

I’ll do a comparison using a 3x for humans and 4x for Dwarves in the morning. I’m too tired to fiddle with my spreadsheet at the moment.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #28

  • Harlax
  • Harlax's Avatar
  • Away
  • 9th Level
  • Supporter
  • Baruk Khazad!
  • Posts: 7891
Thor’s text says “ criticals on 19-20”

Vivs says “all 1 handed melee weapons crit on 19-20”. I don’t see where that adds a multiplier or how it is meaningfully different from the text on Thors.

There was a multiplier on Vivs in some iterations, but it’s long gone.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
Last edit: by Harlax.
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #29

Harlax wrote: Thor’s text says “ criticals on 19-20”

Vivs says “all 1 handed melee weapons crit on 19-20”. I don’t see where that adds a multiplier or how it is meaningfully different from the text on Thors.

There was a multiplier on Vivs in some iterations, but it’s long gone.


Ah yeah, then it's just 2x for humans 3x for dwarves.
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #30

Adam Guay wrote:

Anthony Barnstable wrote: Do all Mage Powers require losing 15 HP? Please make some of them not lose hp maybe?


I think we are waiting for further clarification by jeff.


Yes:

Jeff Martin wrote: The Mage Medallion and Arch-Mage Medallion will have more info posted Sunday morning...unless I sleep in...which might happen.


I'm hoping Jeff is able to sleep in - I need to catch my breath :laugh:
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #31

  • Harlax
  • Harlax's Avatar
  • Away
  • 9th Level
  • Supporter
  • Baruk Khazad!
  • Posts: 7891
I feel a need for two things at this point

1) to thank Jeff for all he does and for including us

2) sleep. These things always drop right before midnight. My sleep/wake pattern is getting seriously out of wack. ;)
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #32

Harlax wrote:

Harlax wrote: I have taken my current build and projected what I can expect. I did make one change, swapping Welfors for Thors. I don't have Welfors, but it represents the best case scenario for one handed weapon. Other builds will be somewhat better for damage, but with tradeoffs lilke lower saves, AC and hit points.



The numbers assume
Gain 4 strength over Stu-Pendous
Use of Bulls Strength potion (free action with pouch of tulz)
Cleric casts Prayer
Add =4/+4 for 5th level Bard with Widseths.
Use of Power Attack
Use of Runestone to add +1 damage
A single target (this will be the vast majority of rooms given recent history)

HUMAN FIGHTER
My current +25 to hit and +27 to damage becomes +25/+36
In the VTD realm I will hit 90% of the time on any monster with less than a 37 AC. I will Crit 20% of the time. I will miss for no damage 10% of the time. Normal damage 70% of the time.

Minimum Normal Damage is 52 .
Average Normal Damage is 56.5
Max Normal Damage is 63

Minimum Crit damage 104
Average Crit damage 113
Max Crit damage 126

Over time that will average out to 69.3 per round.
Dwarf gets 2 less strength to start but gets 3X Crit on 20, 2X crit on 19. Over time an average of 74.4
My Dwarf Fighter using Thor's will average 64.2 per round over time.


Some Wizards are saying they need 100 damage to be "competitive."

TELL ME AGAIN HOW THIS IS "OVERPOWERED."


My analysis of the version we thought was wrapped up. Adding every buff under the sun, an average of 69 damage per round under perfectly ideal conditions


Can you throw a link into the character generator website or something?

It's hard to know what to make of 65 damage a turn without seeing the build.

BiS, where boosting damage over saves/ac/flexibility takes priority in the build Monks under VtD rules do ~100 a round on average.

But I also think a similarly geared Fighter should have a melee damage bonus closer to 50 than to 36 (with power attack, but without Bardsong, Runestones, or Potion Bull's Strength)
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #33

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I agree with the Clerics that the Relic should include their UR ring effect so they aren't forced to double up to gain the full abilities. I suggest changing the Relic to allow 1st level, 2nd level and Restore Spell as Free Action.

I'd also have the Legendary allow Restore Power as a Free action in addition to the other effects just to give the Clerics the most versatility options.


Bump
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #34

Sacred Necklace: "Heal target ally"

Interestingly doesn't say Party Member. So you can revive NPCs.

Keep that in mind!

(Or I'm reading too much into a word choice...)
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #35

Harlax wrote: I feel a need for two things at this point

1) to thank Jeff for all he does and for including us

2) sleep. These things always drop right before midnight. My sleep/wake pattern is getting seriously out of wack. ;)


+10 he is so amazing
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 month 3 weeks ago #36

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Lequinian wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Lequinian wrote: Dwarf already gets x3 on a 20.


And gets 2 less STR base versus Human. That combined with 3x crit raised the average about 5 points.


Yup. I was responding to this...

Would it be better with crit 19-20 x3


To point out that DF wouldn’t really be getting much by the suggestion.

That said we’ll need a ruling in tokendb on whether a natural 19 is x3 for DF. (Presumably not)


I thought that they'd stack per the multiple sources of critical ruling in the PHB automatically making the Dwarf a 4x if the legendary granted x3


For DF a 19 if it hits has a crit range defined by the token. So x2.

For DF a 20 and they are 5th level has a crit range defined by 20 plus the token. So x4.

This is how I have been reading it and factored into my inputs.


Stand corrected since the card does not stack with weapons on crit range. So DF on a 20 would be x3.
Last edit: by edwin.
The topic has been locked.
Time to create page: 0.194 seconds