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TOPIC: Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary

Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #25

If the goal is to create wizards that put out a lot of damage but are fragile and might die a lot, the MEC already lays the ground work. Sacrifice health for spell production.

The current issue is that it doesn't require many HP for a large increase in production.

So you could design wizards' tokens/abilities so they must pour their health in to get various benefits.

Maybe something like:

For each 1hp damage taken, receive +1 damage to spell
To cast spell as free action, take 10hp * spell level damage - maybe zero level spells don't cost hp
To gain extra spell box, take 5hp * (spell level +1) damage
To read scroll as free action, take 15 hp

The specific formulas are negotiable.

This solves the wizards have too many hp issue without a hard cap. Even if they have 100hp, aggressive players will blow through those increasing their output.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #26

edwin wrote:

OrionW wrote: MEC = May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no another offensive action for combat. May elect to take a second skill test for double skill check damage, but if you get it wrong the wizard takes the damage. (Puts the Mad, back in MEC).


Taking this free action would prevent use of a wand, scroll or Retribute Strike during combat. It is not also not define for current combat so it would go across the entire run.


I agree with you, but I kept it in because it was Jeff's original language. I think something like this would be better:

MEC = May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no other spell may be cast that round. May elect to take a second skill test for double skill check damage, but if you get it wrong the wizard takes the damage. (Puts the Mad, back in MEC).
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #27

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: I say just scrap the wizard relic and legendary. We can revisit in another 7 years hahaha

There may be a shred of truth here. If we are time constrained, and want to do it right, would it be best to do design just on this for the next year and have it locked in before the next token cycle?

Downside is all the wizards have to wait a year for their relic and legendary. Plus side is, less chance of unforeseen issues
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #28

Just a thought from a non-wizard.

Make the Relic and Legendary into a staff.
Relic: +2 to hit Damage: 4-14 Cast Spell as Free Action 1/room +12 Spell Check damage

Legendary: +4 to Hit Damage 6-20 Cast Spell as Free action 1/room +18 Spell Check damage Retributive 1/game

Retributive Strike: The power of the staff can be channeled to do 100 points to all monsters. 6-20 on d20 or caster absorbs the same damage. Wizard loses all benefits of the staff for the room as the staff is drained
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #29

Cranston wrote: Just a thought from a non-wizard.

Make the Relic and Legendary into a staff.
Relic: +2 to hit Damage: 4-14 Cast Spell as Free Action 1/room +12 Spell Check damage

Legendary: +4 to Hit Damage 6-20 Cast Spell as Free action 1/room +18 Spell Check damage Retributive 1/game

Retributive Strike: The power of the staff can be channeled to do 100 points to all monsters. 6-20 on d20 or caster absorbs the same damage. Wizard loses all benefits of the staff for the room as the staff is drained


Making it a staff costs wizards 1/2/3/5 spell damage from their total by losing their Staff of Focus.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #30

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Cranston wrote: Just a thought from a non-wizard.

Make the Relic and Legendary into a staff.
Relic: +2 to hit Damage: 4-14 Cast Spell as Free Action 1/room +12 Spell Check damage

Legendary: +4 to Hit Damage 6-20 Cast Spell as Free action 1/room +18 Spell Check damage Retributive 1/game

Retributive Strike: The power of the staff can be channeled to do 100 points to all monsters. 6-20 on d20 or caster absorbs the same damage. Wizard loses all benefits of the staff for the room as the staff is drained


Making it a staff costs wizards 1/2/3/5 spell damage from their total by losing their Staff of Focus.


It also might cause a riot for all the other classes that have had to give up their neck slots for their transmutes.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #31

OrionW wrote:

edwin wrote:

OrionW wrote: MEC = May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no another offensive action for combat. May elect to take a second skill test for double skill check damage, but if you get it wrong the wizard takes the damage. (Puts the Mad, back in MEC).


Taking this free action would prevent use of a wand, scroll or Retribute Strike during combat. It is not also not define for current combat so it would go across the entire run.


I agree with you, but I kept it in because it was Jeff's original language. I think something like this would be better:

MEC = May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no other spell may be cast that round. May elect to take a second skill test for double skill check damage, but if you get it wrong the wizard takes the damage. (Puts the Mad, back in MEC).


I am going to quote myself which is always a bad idea, but I think I put too much into MEC for UR level.

UR MEC: May elect to take a second skill test for double skill check damage, but if you get it wrong the wizard takes the damage.

Relic: May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no other spell may be cast that round. +3 damage when passing a skill check to cast a spell. (would stack with MEC, so +6 if you get both skill check correct)

Legendary something awesome. Honestly I kind of thing Retributive Strike is awesome and fun, so I would keep some version of it.
Last edit: by OrionW.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #32

Mad Evoker's Charm

Pay 10 HP - Duplicate the spell just cast as a Free Action


gets the HP cost and gets the 2 spells per round to compete with Monks/Rangers. It's the only way Wizards will make and stay top DPS is to get their per spell damage average at BIS to be higher than the Monk/Ranger average damage on a spell slide and allow the Wizard to cast 2 spells per round.

Give the 1/game 5x spell damage bonus retributive strike that drops HP to 1 to compensate for spells not having critical (outside of slide spells if that changes is made)

That accounts for 2 pucks vs 2 slides and accounts for puck criticals will a large single hit spell.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #33

OrionW wrote:

OrionW wrote:

edwin wrote:

OrionW wrote: MEC = May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no another offensive action for combat. May elect to take a second skill test for double skill check damage, but if you get it wrong the wizard takes the damage. (Puts the Mad, back in MEC).


Taking this free action would prevent use of a wand, scroll or Retribute Strike during combat. It is not also not define for current combat so it would go across the entire run.


I agree with you, but I kept it in because it was Jeff's original language. I think something like this would be better:

MEC = May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no other spell may be cast that round. May elect to take a second skill test for double skill check damage, but if you get it wrong the wizard takes the damage. (Puts the Mad, back in MEC).


I am going to quote myself which is always a bad idea, but I think I put too much into MEC for UR level.

UR MEC: ay elect to take a second skill test for double skill check damage, but if you get it wrong the wizard takes the damage.

Relic: May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no other spell may be cast that round. +3 damage when passing a skill check to cast a spell. (would stack with MEC, so +6 if you get both skill check correct)

Legendary something awesome. Honestly I kind of thing Retributive Strike is awesome and fun, so I would keep some version of it.


This would in no way allow the Wizards to compete with Rangers and Monks as top DPS which is Jeff's stated goal.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #34

Endgame wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: I say just scrap the wizard relic and legendary. We can revisit in another 7 years hahaha

There may be a shred of truth here. If we are time constrained, and want to do it right, would it be best to do design just on this for the next year and have it locked in before the next token cycle?

Downside is all the wizards have to wait a year for their relic and legendary. Plus side is, less chance of unforeseen issues


We've already given up our spellbook and our familiar. Now you want us to give up our CLASS NECKLACE?

Hard pass
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #35

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:
This would in no way allow the Wizards to compete with Rangers and Monks as top DPS which is Jeff's stated goal.


I think that is better done on the Wizard card. Maybe slide a puck and if it hits do something awesome to your spell is just a baseline wizard ability. Make sure the something awesome scales well with gear.
Last edit: by OrionW.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 6 months 5 days ago #36

Edit: I am wrong. This rule already exists. Stricken.

I think we need to move from talking about "free" actions to talking about "swift" actions.

If we are talking about "free action" damage spells, there will be development problems again later on down the line.

A free action should be something on the level of drinking a potion. Something more powerful than that should be a "swift" action, with only one swift action usable per turn.

Otherwise, as more tokens are printed, we'll be running into a situation where:

1. No one wants more "action" tokens because it breaks the game; or
2. The free action sleaze starts to get really bad, with massive single-player free action alphastrikes.

We're already starting to run into this with the cabal set, free action damage items (FOP:Reaver, Psyferre's), and the proposed free actions from the wizard relic and legendary. I think we ought to future-proof this by making some or all of these "swift" and not free.
Last edit: by Daniel White.
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