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TOPIC: Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary

Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #1

  • Jeff Martin
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As Incognito correctly pointed out 7 years ago, the MEC would come back to bite us in the behind. It has made Wizard Relic and Legendary design very difficult. I hate to do it, but I think it is time to nerf it.

So long as the old MEC is an ingredient for the Relic then most folks won't mind, and those who won't be making the Relic -- they can send it in for a free swap. The main issue as I see it (I could be wrong) is that we have a crazy matrix of all these different spell bonuses and extra spells possible that is compounded by the poorly designed MEC token.

So...let's start over from scratch and design all 3 tokens (MEC, Relic and Legendary) so that they all work together to give the Wizards some fun capabilities. I see Wizards as glass cannons. I want them to do the best damage in the game, but I want them to die the most of all the classes because of their weak AC and hp. With great damage comes the big drawback of you will probably die if you aren't careful or lucky.

So...give me your thoughts on how we can redo the MEC to coordinate with the Relic and Legendary (and all the crazy Cabal/Spell Storing/ etc. powers out there.

I appreciate your patience with me. I painted us into a design corner, and now we gotta break down a wall (nerfing MEC) to get to a good place. If it helps, I am open to redesigning the Wizards cards next week to increase spell damage there. It would be better to fix the game on the cards rather than with tokens. Let's assume spell damage is roughly doubled moving forward.

My idea:

MEC = May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no another offensive action for combat

Relic = May cast spell as a free action (1/room) & Skill Check adds +12 pts (not +6) to spell

Legendary = As Relic & SC adds +18 pts (not +6) to spell & Retributive Strike

Retributive Strike = may break any Rare Wand to cause a massive out-powering of magical energy. All monsters in the room take 100 pts of Force damage. The Wizard takes this same damage unless she rolls an 6-20 on a d20.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #2

Oh gads, that is some number crunching. Where should we expect con and HP to start in this theoretical space? 10 and 18 ... still? Those were the numbers right?

13 con and 15 or 16 hp for elf wizard or wizard respectively
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Last edit: by macxdmg. Reason: clarity
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #3

Is there a desire to make a wizard decide between casting two spells (w/ 1 spell as a free action) versus using a wand or using a scroll of physically attacking and casting a single spell as a free action?

The answer affects my feedback on the MEC, Relic, Legendary and Retribute Strike.

The answer effects whether Bracelets of the Zephyr, Carter's Tome and any other wizard usage token that converts a spell to be cast as a scroll should be recommended for remove from TD.
Last edit: by edwin.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #4

Jeff Martin wrote: MEC = May cast 1st-2nd level spell as a free action but no another offensive action for combat


I don't know if it is because it is Friday and I'm tired or because it is Friday and you are tired, but I'm having a hard time understanding what you wrote on the MEC.

Is that saying:
  • Cast as free action but then your standard action that round cannot be an offensive action?
  • Cast as free action and then take no further attacks that combat?
  • Something else entirely?
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #5

Jeff Martin wrote: Retributive Strike = may break any Rare Wand to cause a massive out-powering of magical energy. All monsters in the room take 100 pts of Force damage. The Wizard takes this same damage unless she rolls an 6-20 on a d20.


Other thoughts will come later, but I want to say this from the jump:

I still think that -any- Legendary design that requires the use of consumables to maximize its benefit is a bad design. A token that requires as many resources as a Legendary to construct should need no further investment to 'keep it running', as it were. And this is quite egregious on that front.
Last edit: by isauteikisa.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #6

No time to number crunch yet. Some initial reaction (sheds a quiet tear for MEC and moves on)

MEC - Doesn't seem like the right name for the token any more. Basically, telling me I can cast 2 spells in one round and then I'm done for the room. Would never equip this by itself. Do I just twiddle my thumbs for the next 8 minutes?

Relic - I'm ok with this as is (pending number crunching)

Legendary - I'm generally ok with this (pending number crunching). I like the addition of Retributive Strike as it's the fun thing I was hoping we'd get. I'm not a fan of having to use a consumable to make the power work. If I only ran TD 2-3 times a year I'd be ok with it, but I don't even have enough wands to support the number of runs I do each year and really don't feel like having to keep buying more of them. Have to think more about this. Obviously, I'm ok with the risk of dying after I use it. That feels more like a mad evoker.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #7

isauteikisa wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Retributive Strike = may break any Rare Wand to cause a massive out-powering of magical energy. All monsters in the room take 100 pts of Force damage. The Wizard takes this same damage unless she rolls an 6-20 on a d20.


Other thoughts will come later, but I want to say this from the jump:

I still think that -any- Legendary design that requires the use of consumables to maximize its benefit is a bad design. A token that requires as many resources as a Legendary to construct should need no further investment to 'keep it running', as it were. And this is quite egregious on that front.

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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #8

isauteikisa wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Retributive Strike = may break any Rare Wand to cause a massive out-powering of magical energy. All monsters in the room take 100 pts of Force damage. The Wizard takes this same damage unless she rolls an 6-20 on a d20.


Other thoughts will come later, but I want to say this from the jump:

I still think that -any- Legendary design that requires the use of consumables to maximize its benefit is a bad design. A token that requires as many resources as a Legendary to construct should need no further investment to 'keep it running', as it were. And this is quite egregious on that front.


100 damage to ALL creatures i think is appropriately reasonable for a 50 cent to single dollar expense.
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #9

  • NightGod
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isauteikisa wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Retributive Strike = may break any Rare Wand to cause a massive out-powering of magical energy. All monsters in the room take 100 pts of Force damage. The Wizard takes this same damage unless she rolls an 6-20 on a d20.


Other thoughts will come later, but I want to say this from the jump:

I still think that -any- Legendary design that requires the use of consumables to maximize its benefit is a bad design. A token that requires as many resources as a Legendary to construct should need no further investment to 'keep it running', as it were. And this is quite egregious on that front.

This was going to be my reply. I have strong doubts this would get used often.

I wouldn't be mad at Kolixela's idea if you're looking for a big boom. You could leave in the chance of massive damage (50? 70?) as a System Shock roll from channeling all that energy if you want the glass cannon part to carry over:

Mystic Blast (1/game) Expend a level 3 spell slot to cast a level 1 spell and duplicate it's entire effects 2 additional times in the same Standard Action. All bonuses or enhancements are applied to all 3 spells. They can target different enemies if multiple are present
Last edit: by NightGod. Reason: Clarity
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #10

Print it
Please visit my fledgling token store.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247486
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #11

isauteikisa wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Retributive Strike = may break any Rare Wand to cause a massive out-powering of magical energy. All monsters in the room take 100 pts of Force damage. The Wizard takes this same damage unless she rolls an 6-20 on a d20.


Other thoughts will come later, but I want to say this from the jump:

I still think that -any- Legendary design that requires the use of consumables to maximize its benefit is a bad design. A token that requires as many resources as a Legendary to construct should need no further investment to 'keep it running', as it were. And this is quite egregious on that front.


+1
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Wizard MEC, Relic and Legendary 1 year 2 months ago #12

isauteikisa wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Retributive Strike = may break any Rare Wand to cause a massive out-powering of magical energy. All monsters in the room take 100 pts of Force damage. The Wizard takes this same damage unless she rolls an 6-20 on a d20.


Other thoughts will come later, but I want to say this from the jump:

I still think that -any- Legendary design that requires the use of consumables to maximize its benefit is a bad design. A token that requires as many resources as a Legendary to construct should need no further investment to 'keep it running', as it were. And this is quite egregious on that front.


Yes / No - I tend to agree with you, but ranged classes already pay a price if they want to do more damage. With that said one of the things I really like about the Druid Legendary is that it lets me keep my hard to find polymorph potions. I think this design is helped that it can be any wand, but I think maybe finding a different option is better. Also if Wizards are breaking something for massive damage it should be a staff ;)
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