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TOPIC: 2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final!

2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #13

Jeff Martin wrote: Whew! Sorry it took so long. I appreciate your patience as I blunder ahead in this crazy process. I guess this somehow works. Your feedback has been invaluable!


Thank you for including us. And putting up with us when we get cranky passionate.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
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2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #14

Jeff, the Fighter tokens seem even more overpowered than before. +6 to St, Dex, or Con was deemed to be too powerful for the Kilt of Dungeonbane, and yet this Relic adds +13 to those combined attributes plus adds in the Ring of Reflexes ability.

The Legendary gets those bonuses and adds in a ton of extra damage from Whirlwind Attack, Power Attack (which I suspect high-end Fighters will use constantly), and the increased crit range.
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2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #15

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, the Fighter tokens seem even more overpowered than before. +6 to St, Dex, or Con was deemed to be too powerful for the Kilt of Dungeonbane, and yet this Relic adds +13 to those combined attributes plus adds in the Ring of Reflexes ability.

The Legendary gets those bonuses and adds in a ton of extra damage from Whirlwind Attack, Power Attack (which I suspect high-end Fighters will use constantly), and the increased crit range.


Run the numbers for a full build. Show that the end result is overpowered.
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2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #16

Jeff Martin wrote: Whew! Sorry it took so long. I appreciate your patience as I blunder ahead in this crazy process. I guess this somehow works. Your feedback has been invaluable!


You have nothing to apologize for Jeff, you have been there for us throughout the entire process.

You listened to all of our feedback and made I token I can't wait to acquire because not only is it awesome, but I also feel I personally had a hand in making it.

Thank you for everything you do and allowing 7s to take part in the process.
If you liked my room, my name is Steve. If you didn't like my room, my name is Hoolio
Last edit: by FatalDrakkon. Reason: Typo
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2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #17

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, the Fighter tokens seem even more overpowered than before. +6 to St, Dex, or Con was deemed to be too powerful for the Kilt of Dungeonbane, and yet this Relic adds +13 to those combined attributes plus adds in the Ring of Reflexes ability.

The Legendary gets those bonuses and adds in a ton of extra damage from Whirlwind Attack, Power Attack (which I suspect high-end Fighters will use constantly), and the increased crit range.


Sigh...

The recipe cost for the Kilt was one of each trade good, a fleece and no gold.

We don’t know the recipes yet, but to get to the Legendary we can start with 30k gold and can anticipate two fleeces and mary many trade goods. Not at all a valid comparison.

The Relic is unchanged through several iterations. It’s been reviewed and debated over and over again

Whirlwind, based on recent history, will only come into play in one to two rooms in maybe half the dungeons. Maybe.

Power Attack means we might actually miss from time to time.

The expanded critical only applies to one play style, and not the highest damage potential style. Same for the reflex bonus.

How many times are we going to plow the same ground?
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
Last edit: by Harlax.
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2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #18

Not to be a fly in the ointment, but does whirlwind attack hit all melee range monsters, or all monsters?

I LOVE power attack.

This seems quite good to me.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
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2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #19

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Not to be a fly in the ointment, but does whirlwind attack hit all melee range monsters, or all monsters?

I LOVE power attack.

This seems quite good to me.


Per Jeff:

Whirlwind Attack: If you hit one monster in the room with a melee attack, and another monster is also in melee range, the same amount of damage will be done to the second monster automatically.

I read that to limit it two monsters, both within melee range.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
Last edit: by Harlax.
The topic has been locked.

2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #20

Harlax wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Not to be a fly in the ointment, but does whirlwind attack hit all melee range monsters, or all monsters?

I LOVE power attack.

This seems quite good to me.


Per Jeff:

Whirlwind Attack: If you hit one monster in the room with a melee attack, and another monster is also in melee range, the same amount of damage will be done to the second monster automatically.

I read that to limit it two monsters, both within melee range.

Jeff Martin wrote: truedungeon.com/files/Transmuted21af.jpg

Whirlwind Attack - If you hit a monster in a room, then the same damage will be automatically done to a second monster in the room


I agree with the older language.
My point was that post 1 in this thread is less clear.

It was late in Carbondale when Jeff posted....
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
The topic has been locked.

2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #21

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Not to be a fly in the ointment, but does whirlwind attack hit all melee range monsters, or all monsters?

I LOVE power attack.

This seems quite good to me.


Per Jeff:

Whirlwind Attack: If you hit one monster in the room with a melee attack, and another monster is also in melee range, the same amount of damage will be done to the second monster automatically.

I read that to limit it two monsters, both within melee range.

Jeff Martin wrote: truedungeon.com/files/Transmuted21af.jpg

Whirlwind Attack - If you hit a monster in a room, then the same damage will be automatically done to a second monster in the room


I agree with the older language.
My point was that post 1 in this thread is less clear.

It was late in Carbondale when Jeff posted....


I see your point. Since its not on the token, its an easy one.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
The topic has been locked.

2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #22

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Whew! Sorry it took so long. I appreciate your patience as I blunder ahead in this crazy process. I guess this somehow works. Your feedback has been invaluable!


Thank you for including us. And putting up with us when we get cranky passionate.


+1

And I like the new legendary.
The topic has been locked.

2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #23

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, the Fighter tokens seem even more overpowered than before. +6 to St, Dex, or Con was deemed to be too powerful for the Kilt of Dungeonbane, and yet this Relic adds +13 to those combined attributes plus adds in the Ring of Reflexes ability.

The Legendary gets those bonuses and adds in a ton of extra damage from Whirlwind Attack, Power Attack (which I suspect high-end Fighters will use constantly), and the increased crit range.


Sigh...

The recipe cost for the Kilt was one of each trade good, a fleece and no gold.

We don’t know the recipes yet, but to get to the Legendary we can start with 30k gold and can anticipate two fleeces and mary many trade goods. Not at all a valid comparison.

The Relic is unchanged through several iterations. It’s been reviewed and debated over and over again

Whirlwind, based on recent history, will only come into play in one to two rooms in maybe half the dungeons. Maybe.

Power Attack means we might actually miss from time to time.

The expanded critical only applies to one play style, and not the highest damage potential style. Same for the reflex bonus.

How many times are we going to plow the same ground?


Not to mention, but I will anyway, that Fighters have very limited special abilities on the character cards and on their tokens. So while every other class can use the stat boost from the Kilt to enhance their character class' special ablities, Fighters just enjoy a greater chance to hit in a normal sliding situation. But now, finally after grinding their way to the Legendary level, Fighters get a few powers to use strategically while employing their sliding prowess.
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2021 Fighter Relic/Legendary Almost Final! 1 year 8 months ago #24

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, the Fighter tokens seem even more overpowered than before. +6 to St, Dex, or Con was deemed to be too powerful for the Kilt of Dungeonbane, and yet this Relic adds +13 to those combined attributes plus adds in the Ring of Reflexes ability.

The Legendary gets those bonuses and adds in a ton of extra damage from Whirlwind Attack, Power Attack (which I suspect high-end Fighters will use constantly), and the increased crit range.


Sigh...

The recipe cost for the Kilt was one of each trade good, a fleece and no gold.

We don’t know the recipes yet, but to get to the Legendary we can start with 30k gold and can anticipate two fleeces and mary many trade goods. Not at all a valid comparison.

The Relic is unchanged through several iterations. It’s been reviewed and debated over and over again

Whirlwind, based on recent history, will only come into play in one to two rooms in maybe half the dungeons. Maybe.

Power Attack means we might actually miss from time to time.

The expanded critical only applies to one play style, and not the highest damage potential style. Same for the reflex bonus.

How many times are we going to plow the same ground?


Not to mention, but I will anyway, that Fighters have very limited special abilities on the character cards and on their tokens. So while every other class can use the stat boost from the Kilt to enhance their character class' special ablities, Fighters just enjoy a greater chance to hit in a normal sliding situation. But now, finally after grinding their way to the Legendary level, Fighters get a few powers to use strategically while employing their sliding prowess.


+1 well said
If you liked my room, my name is Steve. If you didn't like my room, my name is Hoolio
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