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TOPIC: 2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback

2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #25

Flik wrote: How many times have we fought non-evil characters in a dungeon? The first fight of N1? I cant think of many over the past three years.


Constructs, animals, and plants are generally neutral.

If Cletics are excited by this, I'm happy for them..

I felt like the previous version with divine intervention was much better.

Also, Holy Smite seems like a Paladin Ability, while Divine Intervention definitely feels clerical.
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #26

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Flik wrote: How many times have we fought non-evil characters in a dungeon? The first fight of N1? I cant think of many over the past three years.


Constructs, animals, and plants are generally neutral.

If Cletics are excited by this, I'm happy for them..

I felt like the previous version with divine intervention was much better.

Also, Holy Smite seems like a Paladin Ability, while Divine Intervention definitely feels clerical.


Yeah, we actually fight non-evil things pretty regularly. And some things that you might assume are evil actually aren't (they're just misunderstood).

Much preferred Divine Intervention over Holy Smite. That combined with the other changes leave me feeling pretty meh on the Legendary, but loving the Relic.

One question on the Relic though... who are the 'others' that are healed 10 hp? Every party member except the Cleric? Every party member that didn't get healed by the 1st level spell? I'd also probably change the trigger to be any healing spell rather than limiting it to 1st level. I don't see the intent behind that limit.
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #27

Fiddy wrote: One question on the Relic though... who are the 'others' that are healed 10 hp? Every party member except the Cleric? Every party member that didn't get healed by the 1st level spell?


Based on the Rare Cleric neck item, I'm assuming the intent is "everyone but the Cleric".
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #28

I’m with all of you that divine intervention was better than holy smite.

If the item stays as is will you guys be making the legendary or just the relic? Curious on everyone’s thought on if it’s worth it to upgrade.
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #29

I prefer the divine intervention over holy smite. If nothing else, I enjoy the idea of having a chance of divine favor when 7 party members are dead in the last room and things are looking bleak.

I think the relic could be key worded to clean up the token quite a bit for clarity, with the drawback you would have to reference tokendb.

Examples:
Free Action spells could become
Divine Power: All 1st and Second level spells are cast as a free action.

Heal everyone could become:
Mass Cure: When a 1st level healing spell is cast, the Cleric may choose to heal all party members, except the cleric, 10 hp.

Then the relic would become:
Divine Power
Mass Cure (1 /game).

The Legendary would become:
Divine Power
+1 restore spell and power
Mass Cure and Divine Intervention (1/game)

I 100% will make the relic. I'm not sure I value restore spell and power enough for the massive cost of the legendary (its the same reason I haven't made or bought any of the Legendaries). If the legendary switches to Divine Intervention, I would lean toward this being my first legendary.
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #30

Flik wrote: I’m with all of you that divine intervention was better than holy smite.

If the item stays as is will you guys be making the legendary or just the relic? Curious on everyone’s thought on if it’s worth it to upgrade.


It'd be nice if the Legendary gave us something likely to be used somewhere besides Room 7 (or Room 6 if that is the final combat). Maybe if the party knows you have more uses of RP/RS they might use things sooner that could benefit from those, but it seems unlikely (unless you've already done the run and know what is coming). Otherwise it seems like all the abilities are going to be tied to the final combat, and at that point I wonder if you'll actually be able to make use of them, since you'll need 2 (or 3) rounds to use them all (assuming you've already used up your regular RP/RS).

Edit: I missed that Holy Smite is a free action. That seems odd since you're doing a slide for it.

3 rounds assumes the combat slide that you're calling Holy Smite on is still a Standard Action and only the Holy Smite part is a FA.
Last edit: by Fiddy.
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #31

Clarifications needed on Holy Smite:

Is it just the Holy Smite aspect that is a Free Action, or is it the entire combat slide that is a free action?

Do you still do regular damage when sliding for Holy Smite (assuming that you actually hit the AC)?
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #32

Could we get 0th level spells as FA on the Legendary? I might finally cast Guidance.
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #33

Fiddy wrote: Could we get 0th level spells as FA on the Legendary? I might finally cast Guidance.


I think it might need something like this for me to make it. The relic is definitely good as is but like endgame mentions I don't see much reason to upgrade. The legendary might need lvl 0 spells as FA and restore spell/power as FA. Or some stats. Or some +healing.
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #34

Fiddy wrote: Could we get 0th level spells as FA on the Legendary? I might finally cast Guidance.

At that point, is there any reason not to just open up to all spells at the legendary? That would be an interesting power and another reason to upgrade. Probably wouldn’t need a keyword then, could just add a line “cast spells as a FA”.
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #35

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Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Aothos wrote: Necklace of Sacred Beads: I'm a little worried about the wording on the Relic (and the like-minded rare). The wording should simply read "Heal all allies 10hp 1/game" instead of including a trigger. This is a boss room/ pre-boss room ability, and we don't want players holding onto their Lv.1 spells until then.


I guess I am going to be the negative nancy that comes in to comment on this.

The 1/game heal seems extremely strong. It's more than triple the Bard's group healing ability and we've already had tokens for healing nerfed for being too strong. Maybe 5 to all players as a free action 1/game?

Not my class, don't want to piss on your token, just seems like a risk of pushing healing up too far. 100 points of healing 1/game seems a touch extreme


This is actually a decrease in healing from the other suggestions of getting a free spell slot at each level. I think 10 is fine for a relic once a game, on nightmare that isn't even healing all the damage from one puzzle failure.
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2021 Cleric Relic & Legendary Feedback 1 month 3 weeks ago #36

James wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Aothos wrote: Necklace of Sacred Beads: I'm a little worried about the wording on the Relic (and the like-minded rare). The wording should simply read "Heal all allies 10hp 1/game" instead of including a trigger. This is a boss room/ pre-boss room ability, and we don't want players holding onto their Lv.1 spells until then.


I guess I am going to be the negative nancy that comes in to comment on this.

The 1/game heal seems extremely strong. It's more than triple the Bard's group healing ability and we've already had tokens for healing nerfed for being too strong. Maybe 5 to all players as a free action 1/game?

Not my class, don't want to piss on your token, just seems like a risk of pushing healing up too far. 100 points of healing 1/game seems a touch extreme


This is actually a decrease in healing from the other suggestions of getting a free spell slot at each level. I think 10 is fine for a relic once a game, on nightmare that isn't even healing all the damage from one puzzle failure.

Agreed.

Additionally, the bard is still looking at... uh... 8 casts of soothe wounds at this point for 24hp to everyone, not counting any +healing the bard has equipped and +heal self items worn by the party members themselves
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