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TOPIC: Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid Discussion

Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #1

Let's talk here not on the QTR proof reading thread.

Someone noticed a completion token:

Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid - Rare - +2 damage with melee attacks
Ioun Stone Jasper Prism - Uncommon - +1 damage with melee attacks

And observed that this is basically equivalent to the 2019 UR Ioun Stone Invernal Fire Prism

Discuss.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

Ioun Stone Jaspter Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #2

This (proposed?) completion token is almost strictly better than IS Infernal Fire Prism. The only time it isn’t is if a monster is weak to fire.

I think we can all agree that completion tokens shouldn’t approach $100 (Inferno step until shocking step, soul coffer) nor should they be better than UR.

If the token stands as is people will be pressuring PUGs to run hardcore on whatever dungeon it’s on.

TPTB, please consider changing this token.

Also Matt your thread has a misspelling.

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Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #3

I'm torn - I think it would be good to have one or two chase completion tokens a year - especially at satellite conventions - it's a nice way to give vols or regulars who travel to the new con a boost.

Also, these stack with other Iouns, it's not like it's duplicating a wrist slot effect or something.

But I agree that "rare that is as good as last year UR" is probably not great territory to be in - especially when that UR is a BiS build token.


On the one hand, it might simply be too late - the tokens might be in process.

If it's not too late, I might suggest:
* Rare +1 to melee damage, Uncommon +1 to melee damage but you take 1 poison when you score a hit
* +2 to damage and +1 to damage with a Rare melee weapon
* +2 to damage and +1 to damage with two handed melee weapons

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

Ioun Stone Jaspter Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #4

Flik wrote: I think we can all agree that completion tokens shouldn’t approach $100 (Inferno step until shocking step, soul coffer)


Can we?

Why not?

Specifically what is wrong with a dungeon having a completion token that is highly valued on the secondary market?

Plusses:
* When deployed at non-gen con, helps sell more tickets / sell out faster.
* Good for players - makes running cheaper

Minuses:
* Might lead to ugly group dynamics of people pushing for HC or NM to get the chase ones - but this can already happen.
* Might make people who didn't get that token sad / jealous / upset.

I think if I were TD I would want to have a chase completion token or two at cons that aren't selling out until they do.

Can you imagine how many new players would get hooked going on a $50 run at PAX ABC and then finding out they can sell the completion token for $100?

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Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #5

I don't think they are going to sell for more then Soul Coffers this year, it isn't super out there so I really don't care but I can understand how people have feelings about it.

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Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #6

Matthew Hayward wrote: I'm torn - I think it would be good to have one or two chase completion tokens a year - especially at satellite conventions - it's a nice way to give vols or regulars who travel to the new con a boost.

Also, these stack with other Iouns, it's not like it's duplicating a wrist slot effect or something.

But I agree that "rare that is as good as last year UR" is probably not great territory to be in - especially when that UR is a BiS build token.


On the one hand, it might simply be too late - the tokens might be in process.

If it's not too late, I might suggest:
* Rare +1 to melee damage, Uncommon +1 to melee damage but you take 1 poison when you score a hit
* +2 to damage and +1 to damage with a Rare melee weapon
* +2 to damage and +1 to damage with two handed melee weapons


I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly, but I'd love it if it became +1 (UC) and +2 (Rare) damage w/ 2H melee weapons. An IS version of the Ring of Enervation more or less.

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Ioun Stone Jaspter Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #7

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Flik wrote: I think we can all agree that completion tokens shouldn’t approach $100 (Inferno step until shocking step, soul coffer)


Can we?

Why not?

Specifically what is wrong with a dungeon having a completion token that is highly valued on the secondary market?

Plusses:
* When deployed at non-gen con, helps sell more tickets / sell out faster.
* Good for players - makes running cheaper

Minuses:
* Might lead to ugly group dynamics of people pushing for HC or NM to get the chase ones - but this can already happen.
* Might make people who didn't get that token sad / jealous / upset.

I think if I were TD I would want to have a chase completion token or two at cons that aren't selling out until they do.

Can you imagine how many new players would get hooked going on a $50 run at PAX ABC and then finding out they can sell the completion token for $100?


Maybe it feels especially bad right now because people who bought last year's IS Infernal Fire Prism now have their token equivalent to a Gen Con completion token. You said satellite cons but this one happens to be Gen Con only.

I think there will be even more angry new people that come to the forums (like they do every year, reddit, gen con, and here) complaining about how they were pushed to do HC and died so some vets could get their chase tokens. Especially Gen Con where you can't really control getting in specific runs that well.

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Last edit: by Flik.

Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #8

Conventions without sell outs if I recall correctly are GameholeCon and possibly Origins. Pax West sold thru and GenCon sells thru. Pax South is some betwen those two.

New tokens ever so slowly increase the overall best builds possible. People are use to have a mulitple year delay between the bump up. When things tend to be overpriced is when they seem to be considered for reprint.

The cost of doing the run at GenCon is $80. Not far behind a PYP price. It is nice when a completion token has some value versus collecting dust or being mulched.

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Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #9

How do we know this is a gen con completion token? I always thought it was a rule that the gen con tokens are not revealed until they are given out at gen con

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Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #10

Steven wrote: How do we know this is a gen con completion token? I always thought it was a rule that the gen con tokens are not revealed until they are given out at gen con


It was listed as such on page 17 of the QTR Beta PDF Druegar linked on the associated forum thread reviewing it.

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Last edit: by ralykam.

Ioun Stone Jaspter Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #11

Flik wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Flik wrote: I think we can all agree that completion tokens shouldn’t approach $100 (Inferno step until shocking step, soul coffer)


Can we?

Why not?

Specifically what is wrong with a dungeon having a completion token that is highly valued on the secondary market?

Plusses:
* When deployed at non-gen con, helps sell more tickets / sell out faster.
* Good for players - makes running cheaper

Minuses:
* Might lead to ugly group dynamics of people pushing for HC or NM to get the chase ones - but this can already happen.
* Might make people who didn't get that token sad / jealous / upset.

I think if I were TD I would want to have a chase completion token or two at cons that aren't selling out until they do.

Can you imagine how many new players would get hooked going on a $50 run at PAX ABC and then finding out they can sell the completion token for $100?


Maybe it feels especially bad right now because people who bought last year's IS Infernal Fire Prism now have their token equivalent to a Gen Con completion token. You said satellite cons but this one happens to be Gen Con only.

I think there will be even more angry new people that come to the forums (like they do every year, reddit, gen con, and here) complaining about how they were pushed to do HC and died so some vets could get their chase tokens. Especially Gen Con where you can't really control getting in specific runs that well.



I agree having this at GenCon might cause some trouble along the lines you describe - as this would be a very desirable token.

I would distribute this at one of the other cons that doesn't sell out or sells out slowly.

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Ioun Stone Jaspter Ellipsoid Discussion 1 month 1 week ago #12

If this is a Gencon completion token and I can determine which run it's given out on, that means I shift all of my hosted runs to specifically that dungeon, ignoring the other one.

If it's a GC only token and it's specific to one dungeon, and the other dungeon has a shit completion token how many people do we lose as potential players because they find out their 1 run in 2020 was the "wrong" one and didn't net them a free $80 token. Percieved loss of value is a thing.

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