TOPIC: 2020 Transmuted Beta Images

I wonder where the recipes for those Holy Avengers will end up. I expect the +3 will be needed for the +5.

Dave Autzen wrote: I wonder where the recipes for those Holy Avengers will end up. I expect the +3 will be needed for the +5.

The +5 of a weapon always requires the +3 relic plus 40k gold and trade tokens and sometimes a UR or 2.

jpotter wrote:

Dave wrote:

archmage78 wrote: I don't know if I understand the savior stone. It seems to be the exact same as the potions of death door which I believe is used to make it

Isn't it a slotless item that can be reused once per adventure versus the potion that is consumable?

Savior stone is one use consumable.

To me, including the word slotless means that you're actually equipping this. Side effect is that any build can only equip one and you'll only be able to save one other person per game. Otherwise, there is no need to say slotless.

There goes my fun of taking a stack of thirty or so into a Grind.

Ok, I've thought about it a little more. Here's my full assessment:

Avengers: This is OP. +5 to saves is amazing on it's own. There is a +6 saves Legendary cloak that does nothing else. I think either the saves or the extra LoH needs to be removed, minimum. So it has 0.5 average damage less than the other 1H legendary sword as a downside. And it has as upsides: An UR neck (Guarding), an UR head (Crown of Expertise), between a relic and legendary cloak (Pharicus), and almost an additional UR head (Crown of Expertise again, almost: 10 LoH uses). AND THEN IT CAN AUTO KILL SHIT TOO.

Barbarians: This seems cool, thematic, and balanced. (Semi confused as to what "Fury" is...)

Monks: Bad. Really bad. (see below)

Rangers: Interesting game play mechanics, seems to be balanced. Thematic. Yes, it requires a lot of consumables, but, it provides a lot of options.

Lenses of the Owl: Better power for a 3 star transmute. Is the +1 to attack, to damage, both? Needs clarification

Ring of Fevor: Really like it. Interesting combination (melee and spell)

Charm of Timely Aid: I like it. Wonder if it would be better as a 3 star transmute instead.

Ring of Stamina: As others have said, would prefer to see a +3 con ring. Still a good ring, don't know if the power level is a 4 star transmute.

Selfless Savior Stone: Weird. I don't know what the thought process is behind this is. Don't know if I would make this with PoDD or Potion Root Revival floating about.

Monk:
Sigh. This needs help. The comparison between the 1st Monk relic (which was bad) and the current iteration is comical. The 1st had: +4 melee dmg, +2 AC. The current has: +3 melee dmg, 1 additional stun per 3 games, 1 auto kill per 10 games (on average, assuming a consistent slider, which is questionable at best). Auto-kills are not very fun to me, and, looking through the forums, that seems to be the consensus. Not to mention, the 19s and 20s on the combat boards are small. Try, please, to get two 19s or 20s. I'll wait. Tell me how many slides you had to do. Still working on it? Thought so. The likelihood of this EVER coming up is so, so small, it's not worth it. Especially on the class legendary. Maybe a rare monk weapon, that could be interesting. Yeah, I went there. The auto-kill requirement of 2 monk pucks land on a 19 and 20 is a rare level power in my mind.

Possible fixes for the Monk (some of it, I've said before):
Expanded stun range (could limit it to 1/monster/room)
Increase saves (monastery training)
Increase AC (unarmored defense)
summon shadow clones, absorbing an attack, basically giving +1 activation of shadowskin
"Unleash the dragon" AOE attack. Call it out and attack 1 target. melee damage splashes to other enemies.
Self-healing or temporary health mechanic similar to an enhanced version of the healing from Ring of Dark Health.
Disarm mechanic reducing physical damage of enemy.
Something psychic-related like "immune to charm, possession and other character loss-of-control effects".
Messing with Psychic is fine, but make it worthwhile. It's too situational for a legendary.
Avoid instant kills.

References and people I've talked with on this post:
Phil
Randy
https://truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=55&id=249862&start=108#342979
https://truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=55&id=249929&start=96#344864

Fiddy wrote:

jpotter wrote:

Dave wrote:

archmage78 wrote: I don't know if I understand the savior stone. It seems to be the exact same as the potions of death door which I believe is used to make it

Isn't it a slotless item that can be reused once per adventure versus the potion that is consumable?

Savior stone is one use consumable.

To me, including the word slotless means that you're actually equipping this. Side effect is that any build can only equip one and you'll only be able to save one other person per game. Otherwise, there is no need to say slotless.

There goes my fun of taking a stack of thirty or so into a Grind.

I think it should be changed to "Consumable: Slotless" or Slotless: Consumable" for clarification.

That way you know it is used up and it one per person per dungeon. If that is the intended result Jeff wants.

Monk Necklaces

+3/+5 Sacred damage with Flurry of Blows: Compared to +3 Str +4 Con or +3 Str +3 Dex or 3 Charm slots. I'm not surprised to see this nerfed from the previous +5/+7 damage, but its not worth the trade good cost now.

Stun Fist works w/ 2nd "20" in room: Is this written to specifically not work with Ring of Stunning Fist? If not, it might be cleaner to say "Stunning Fist twice per room."

Stun Fist works with all "19-20": Multiple times per room, 19 or 20 triggers it... Great! Too good likely. I foresee myself being very frustrated when more mobs are immune to stun to nerf this.

Auto-Kills if 2x "20" are slid: Sure... its going to happen so rarely that I'm not sure its worth the text on the token, but sure.

Auto-kill is 2x "19-20" are slid: First the nit pick, one of these abilities is "auto-kills" while the other is "auto-kill". This one might actually happen on very rare occasion.

+1 Psychic Power use: Cool, an extra 4hp heal or other effect. Would be nice if the Necklace granted Psychic also, so monk didn't have to equip other tokens to make this power mean something, but its fine as is.

As it is, yea I'll probably make the Legendary. Then when all the stun immune creates start appearing I'll sell it off so I'm not so frustrated.

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Monk Necklaces

+3/+5 Sacred damage with Flurry of Blows: Compared to +3 Str +4 Con or +3 Str +3 Dex or 3 Charm slots. I'm not surprised to see this nerfed from the previous +5/+7 damage, but its not worth the trade good cost now.

Stun Fist works w/ 2nd "20" in room: Is this written to specifically not work with Ring of Stunning Fist? If not, it might be cleaner to say "Stunning Fist twice per room."

Stun Fist works with all "19-20": Multiple times per room, 19 or 20 triggers it... Great! Too good likely. I foresee myself being very frustrated when more mobs are immune to stun to nerf this.

Auto-Kills if 2x "20" are slid: Sure... its going to happen so rarely that I'm not sure its worth the text on the token, but sure.

Auto-kill is 2x "19-20" are slid: First the nit pick, one of these abilities is "auto-kills" while the other is "auto-kill". This one might actually happen on very rare occasion.

+1 Psychic Power use: Cool, an extra 4hp heal or other effect. Would be nice if the Necklace granted Psychic also, so monk didn't have to equip other tokens to make this power mean something, but its fine as is.

As it is, yea I'll probably make the Legendary. Then when all the stun immune creates start appearing I'll sell it off so I'm not so frustrated.

Now that I've given this some though and read some of the feedback I'd have to say that the monk necklace feels like it has some very rough edges. By this I mean the slim chance on auto kill which people have stated they don't see as a fun mechanic is one thing. The unlimited stun on 19 - 20 will be a problem just like the 4 total stuns a monk could do a few years back (killed/drove off the mind flayer without any one getting damaged) and as Jake said this may lead to stun immune monster which guts the legendary for monks.

Kirk Bauer wrote: 3) Monk Necklaces: I like the flavor, but the Legendary might be overpowered. Of course I don't play Monk and people who do say it is underpowered. Here is my concern: at +5dmg per puck it is pretty close to the same +10 dmg the Barbarian gets. Shouldn't Barbarian get more bonus damage? Secondly, to stun monsters on every single 19 or 20 on either of the two pucks means a good Monk slider can probably prevent a monster from taking actions for most of the combat.

I want to preface that I main a Monk and I dont think these are under-powered, but I dont find them very awe-inspiring for the monetary investment we will have to put into creating them, but sometimes thats how things shakes out.

I dont feel like lowing the damage provided by the relic/legendary monk tokens at its current state is the right answer, but I do feel that the Barbarian should have a higher flat bonus per slide compared to the Monk. My understanding, which could be all wrong, is that the Monk will do more damage if both strikes land on the monster, however the Barbarian should do more damage per puck. The drawback of the monk is that not everybody can slide two tokens accurately the way that is required for the game and this could decrease the number of tokens that are hit by the monk.

I do find it odd that the Monk legendary provides +1 psychic power use but does not imbue psychic trait. Its not really a deal breaker, just odd to boost something that is not innate to the class or is not provided by the token. Was there an issue with the legendary imbueing psychic trait?

I also agree with Kirk on the whole ability to continuously stun a create and potentially lock down a combat and make it all one sided, which could be fun but is not going to be well received by all. I would like to purpose for the legendary to increase the stunning fist use to a 3rd time and keep the range at 19-20 or keep it at 2 and lower the range down to maybe 18-20. However if future most creatures become immune to stun to combat the number of times this token can activate, I would recommend adding something to the token to make it worth while against creatures that are immune. One thing I want to bring up that I saw in other LARPs and Table tops to combat status effects that were spammed by PC to lock down a file was to give the creatures resists or a set number that an effect can be triggered on them, for example, the Giant Wraith might take the first two stuns but eventually builds up an immunity much like Westley's explanation as to why the Vizzini's poison did not kill him.

Auto-Kill, I am not really a fan of the auto-kill personally, but I have no idea what could go here. Maybe keep the Returning Shuriken ability from the ring at the relic level and add GoFF effect to the legendary level.

Proposal for Monk Necklaces

Necklace of the Spirit Drake
+3 Strength
Stunning Fists works on "19-20"
Immune to Charm

Necklace of the Elder Drake
+5 Strength
Stunning Fists work on "18-20" on all creatures (no one can be immune)
Immune to Mind effects
Shuriken use melee stats

I still find it odd that the Legendaries aren't named after anyone.

I went from very unimpressed with the last version, to very impressed with this version of the Holy avenger
I even think the relic is worth having and not just a step to the +5 as well. I guess we will see where it ends up after the nerf hammer comes for it.

Still would like to know if the guard stacks.

Maybe have it be plus 10 healing to first lay on hands to keep tracking simple, same for the relic only +5

If we need to lose something I would prefer it be the autokill or the sacrifice ability since they look impressive but don’t really add that much to the token. Basically these will come into effect so little that I hate that they will be used as arguments for stripping what makes this version good. The guard, the saves, and the lay on hands. Certainly not the best weapon available for combat but it makes up for it with everything else it dose.

PalaDan wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Did I miss what fury does somewhere?

I really hope the paladin legendary stacks with AoG. It is a choice to either guard someone else or buff your stats as a Paladin. Please, dont take that choice away. As a team game, I want to be able to guard as much as I can, and I am fine being a weaker damage dealer as a result.
If a different ability has to go to make this happen, I could live with it.

I'm cool with it stacking, but I hope nothing gets removed to make it happen.

Not even the extra LoH, which seems to be a bit confusing anyhow?

Either way, clarification on stacking or not would be helpful.

I don't see this as slotless either. It definitely locks the paladin in to having a one handed melee weapon rather than extra damage that comes with a 2 hander.

I love it the way it is. If it goes down a little bit, I'll be bummed out, but probably ok.