TOPIC: 2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images

Endgame wrote: Oh how I would love to trade 4 PyP and a few trade goods for Bot4W. Given I wasn't lucky enough to start during the Boots cycle, but I'm here now, I have to choose between Keys and boots. As slotless tokens equipped by the whole party, I don't see how I choose the boots.

I got the 1250 value on the +5 baton from token sites, but if I swing the discounts correctly I should be able to actually manage it for around 700 if I swing the right discounts and sell my +3 baton.

Sorry I thought you talking generally for players not specifically for yourself, which is why I said yes and no. For you it seems you should definitely get the keys if you feel that strongly about it. Though like others said I would have the other players buy the keys (unless like me you buy all tokens for your group).

Matt wrote: Monk UR definitely more interesting now and usable as a way to get monk to the ranged party without having to reprint the GoFF. Actually like it more/better than monk transmute itself honestly.

This is a problem. I posted on the Transmutes Page accordingly.

Milambus (Jake) wrote: +2 Flaming Dirk: Previous dirks have been d4 weapons except 2019's common dirk with is a d8. The d4 dirks were throwable, will this be throwable? Can monks Flurry-of-Blows with it? Perhaps a different type of knife would be better here.

Clarification would be nice. I would like a FoB compatible UR weapon. It's been WAY too long. Same damage as the +2 Viper Strike Fang. But, doesn't have the Viper Strike set bonus. I see this as a win and a good token to be FoB.

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

I find fault with you calling it base low level healing. It isn't a base. It requires additional resources.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

I said comparing weapons. I said nothing about comparing the UR key to rare tokens.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.

Well yes and no. My Bot4W didn't cost me anywhere near ~$1100. 4 Pyp's and some trade goods. I don't have a +5 Baton of focus (yet), but it won't cost me $1250.

Oh how I would love to trade 4 PyP and a few trade goods for Bot4W. Given I wasn't lucky enough to start during the Boots cycle, but I'm here now, I have to choose between Keys and boots. As slotless tokens equipped by the whole party, I don't see how I choose the boots.

I got the 1250 value on the +5 baton from token sites, but if I swing the discounts correctly I should be able to actually manage it for around 700 if I swing the right discounts and sell my +3 baton.

Your best value by far is 10 Linked Shirts of Healing and 10 Ioun Stone Agate Orbs. Twice the healing bonuses you can get from the Key, at a total price around $30 or $40 probably. FAR cheaper and more effective than the Keys (which is why I still think they were better at the original +3).

Yep - my party is already equipped with them, and some of the party is also using pants off Blisswalk. Even though there is more healing, it's not really better - my party has to give up shirt, 1 Is slot, and pants slot.

Since there is no opportunity cost to the keys, the correct answer is to buy as many as you have money for, because it's just free healing.

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

I find fault with you calling it base low level healing. It isn't a base. It requires additional resources.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

I said comparing weapons. I said nothing about comparing the UR key to rare tokens.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.

Well yes and no. My Bot4W didn't cost me anywhere near ~$1100. 4 Pyp's and some trade goods. I don't have a +5 Baton of focus (yet), but it won't cost me $1250.

Oh how I would love to trade 4 PyP and a few trade goods for Bot4W. Given I wasn't lucky enough to start during the Boots cycle, but I'm here now, I have to choose between Keys and boots. As slotless tokens equipped by the whole party, I don't see how I choose the boots.

I got the 1250 value on the +5 baton from token sites, but if I swing the discounts correctly I should be able to actually manage it for around 700 if I swing the right discounts and sell my +3 baton.

Your best value by far is 10 Linked Shirts of Healing and 10 Ioun Stone Agate Orbs. Twice the healing bonuses you can get from the Key, at a total price around $30 or $40 probably. FAR cheaper and more effective than the Keys (which is why I still think they were better at the original +3).

Yep - my party is already equipped with them, and some of the party is also using pants off Blisswalk. Even though there is more healing, it's not really better - my party has to give up shirt, 1 Is slot, and pants slot.

Since there is no opportunity cost to the keys, the correct answer is to buy as many as you have money for, because it's just free healing.

The opportunity cost isn't in slots but that most people have a limited amount of funds, and this might not be a UR that makes the cut for a lot of people (at +2 I don't think it will make the cut for my group). +2 heals per spell cast on them might not be worth $100 to a lot of people. I agree that if you had unlimited money to spend on tokens, getting 10 of these would be an easy call. Just like all the other slotless tokens would be easy calls with unlimited money, but most of which I didn't buy for my group because I didn't think they were worth the cost of a UR.

Thank you so much for taking my feedback and adding +healing to the Arcane Belt!! Much needed and appreciated.

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

I find fault with you calling it base low level healing. It isn't a base. It requires additional resources.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

I said comparing weapons. I said nothing about comparing the UR key to rare tokens.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.

Well yes and no. My Bot4W didn't cost me anywhere near ~$1100. 4 Pyp's and some trade goods. I don't have a +5 Baton of focus (yet), but it won't cost me $1250.

Oh how I would love to trade 4 PyP and a few trade goods for Bot4W. Given I wasn't lucky enough to start during the Boots cycle, but I'm here now, I have to choose between Keys and boots. As slotless tokens equipped by the whole party, I don't see how I choose the boots.

I got the 1250 value on the +5 baton from token sites, but if I swing the discounts correctly I should be able to actually manage it for around 700 if I swing the right discounts and sell my +3 baton.

Your best value by far is 10 Linked Shirts of Healing and 10 Ioun Stone Agate Orbs. Twice the healing bonuses you can get from the Key, at a total price around $30 or $40 probably. FAR cheaper and more effective than the Keys (which is why I still think they were better at the original +3).

Yep - my party is already equipped with them, and some of the party is also using pants off Blisswalk. Even though there is more healing, it's not really better - my party has to give up shirt, 1 Is slot, and pants slot.

Since there is no opportunity cost to the keys, the correct answer is to buy as many as you have money for, because it's just free healing.

The opportunity cost isn't in slots but that most people have a limited amount of funds, and this might not be a UR that makes the cut for a lot of people (at +2 I don't think it will make the cut for my group). +2 heals per spell cast on them might not be worth $100 to a lot of people. I agree that if you had unlimited money to spend on tokens, getting 10 of these would be an easy call. Just like all the other slotless tokens would be easy calls with unlimited money, but most of which I didn't buy for my group because I didn't think they were worth the cost of a UR.

First rule of playtest feedback - if it can be done, it will always be done from that point forward regardless of meta considerations. In this case, the meta consideration is money spent on tokens.

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

I find fault with you calling it base low level healing. It isn't a base. It requires additional resources.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

I said comparing weapons. I said nothing about comparing the UR key to rare tokens.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.

Well yes and no. My Bot4W didn't cost me anywhere near ~$1100. 4 Pyp's and some trade goods. I don't have a +5 Baton of focus (yet), but it won't cost me $1250.

Oh how I would love to trade 4 PyP and a few trade goods for Bot4W. Given I wasn't lucky enough to start during the Boots cycle, but I'm here now, I have to choose between Keys and boots. As slotless tokens equipped by the whole party, I don't see how I choose the boots.

I got the 1250 value on the +5 baton from token sites, but if I swing the discounts correctly I should be able to actually manage it for around 700 if I swing the right discounts and sell my +3 baton.

Your best value by far is 10 Linked Shirts of Healing and 10 Ioun Stone Agate Orbs. Twice the healing bonuses you can get from the Key, at a total price around $30 or $40 probably. FAR cheaper and more effective than the Keys (which is why I still think they were better at the original +3).

Yep - my party is already equipped with them, and some of the party is also using pants off Blisswalk. Even though there is more healing, it's not really better - my party has to give up shirt, 1 Is slot, and pants slot.

Since there is no opportunity cost to the keys, the correct answer is to buy as many as you have money for, because it's just free healing.

The opportunity cost isn't in slots but that most people have a limited amount of funds, and this might not be a UR that makes the cut for a lot of people (at +2 I don't think it will make the cut for my group). +2 heals per spell cast on them might not be worth $100 to a lot of people. I agree that if you had unlimited money to spend on tokens, getting 10 of these would be an easy call. Just like all the other slotless tokens would be easy calls with unlimited money, but most of which I didn't buy for my group because I didn't think they were worth the cost of a UR.

First rule of playtest feedback - if it can be done, it will always be done from that point forward regardless of meta considerations. In this case, the meta consideration is money spent on tokens.

I personally don't think that +2 or +3 healing on this would cause any issues, and I think it's balanced compared to other tokens like Shirt of Linked Healing, Gregor's Tome, Ioun Stone Agate Orb, but I think I'll agree to disagree with you on it.

Super excited for this version of the Arcane tokens! (Anybody want to buy a Belt of Blessed Constitution? Not til after GenCon though)

Flik wrote: Thank you so much for taking my feedback and adding +healing to the Arcane Belt!! Much needed and appreciated.

I hate it! Since it didn't have a healing bonus, I was going to ignore it and stay with +str belts. Now I might need the whole set.

That said, I prefer the -1 Con versions of the slot expanders so there is some kind of cost to an ever increasing number of slots.

I think too much is being made of the Key's affect on the game. I think it will be less noticeable then the scroll and potion boosting items that already exist. I think people that are fans of the book should be able to have nice things and it should not be nerfed into oblivion.

I would like to see the +5 dmg restriction removed from the Rod of the Meek. Part of the fun of TD is puzzle solving and folks that like to solve puzzles would like to game out how to add +dmg to this item. I don't think that the item represents a huge power spike in the same way that a x3 crit weapon would and as a result the guardrails should be loosed up a bit.

I’d love to get back either of the two earlier versions of the hat and push the bonus level to another token in 2021 because ring of fateful heroism is in print.