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TOPIC: 2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images

2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #13

I think the hand of glory is a cool effect. It allows for extra rings at the expense of neck, which could mean additional focus or a ring of spell storing, etc.
Will a lot of "top tier" builds add it in? probably not.
It is a fun option and an iconic artifact, which I like.

I would think most would have preferred an MEC reprint, but I do like it.

Could see clerics liking it as well. Not sure.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #14

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I like it for bards, since their legendary doesn't take the neck slot. Am I getting one, no. If I got it as a random would use it, yes.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #15

If the hand of glory is considered underpowered, perhaps the restriction on 3 rings total could be removed?

Then do the same for gloves of glory when it is reprinted at some point in the future creation the option to have 4 rings by exchanging the next and gloves slot for them?
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #16

Monk UR definitely more interesting now and usable as a way to get monk to the ranged party without having to reprint the GoFF. Actually like it more/better than monk transmute itself honestly.

Glad to see no more con penalties on the Arcane set.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #17

+2 Flaming Dirk: Previous dirks have been d4 weapons except 2019's common dirk with is a d8. The d4 dirks were throwable, will this be throwable? Can monks Flurry-of-Blows with it? Perhaps a different type of knife would be better here.

+3 Rod of the Meek: Looks good.

Arcane Belt: Great.

Arcane Bracelets: 9 total Ioun Stone now?

Arcane Earcuff: 10 total Charms now?

Bracers of Reckless Fury: I like it, but Barbarian is only a secondary class for me.

Charm of Brooching: Great reprint.

Cloak of the Elm: Seems weak.

Cook's Hat: Good for newer players. Just not sure we need this effect with the ring still in print, but I understand the reason why.

Hand of Glory: Great Reprint.

Ioun Stone Banshee Prism: Great for the non-melee people.

Lenses of Seer Sight: Power creep from Lenses of Vital Insight, which I think is fine. But the name seems like it should be a different effect.

Lucky Set: seems good.

Pants of the Panther: seems fine

Ring of the Drake: Much cleaner design. I hope we can fit a rare Shuriken into 2021's token to go with this and I'm glad the Masterwork made it into the Uncommon tokens.

Semi-Lick Skill: Seems good for a slotless.

Shirt of the Oaf: I'll get it for the transmute. I do wonder if it should be +3 Str, -1 Dex and -1 Con to mirror the Kilts though.

Taborlin's Key: I'll get one, but many people in the "get 1-2 PYP a year" group probably won't.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #18

jedibcg wrote: Your 'Base, low equipment party Healing math.' is still is figuring LoDS for both Cleric and Druid. Plus level bumps for Cleric, Druid, Bard. This does not seem like a fair comparison.

True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

jedibcg wrote: You cost analysis of The +5 Baton of Focus solely focuses on healing while the baton does more than that. It also pumps damage spells, which I admit on a 5th level Cleric is only 2 spells but that is still extra damage on both those spells. It also can but used as a melee weapon.

True, it can be used for the 2 damage spells and in melee. But if I want to heal AND fight, my optimal path is to get the Rare or Relic baton of healing, and then get the Keys. There is no upgrade path, even at UR level, that is more efficient to adding healing to the group.

Lets say I want to heal more given this build: www.truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=563&id=248928&start=0

What should my path be? The option are:

+5 Baton. Cost ~1250 (- whatever I can sell my +3 baton for). Yields 22 healing over the course of a dungeon and if I'm not casting prayer or bless, I can attack with it at +2 over my relic baton.

Boots of the 4 winds. Cost ~1100. Yields 44 healing over the course of a dungeon and +5 damage per attack.

Gloves of Glory and +3 Ring of Focus. Cost ~800. Yields 22 healing over the course of a dungeon... and +3 damage to 2 combat spells I'm probably not going to cast.

10 keys. Cost ~1000. Yields 44 healing from me over the course of the dungeon. Since my party has a level 5 bard and usually a level 5 druid, tack in another 88 healing for 132 total extra healing per dungeon.

jedibcg wrote: If you are looking for cost of a rare vs ultra-rare for any token and you look at cost vs damage output, you will always fine that dollars per damage goes down as rarity goes up. I don't know what healing would be different.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #19

For what it's worth In the Tokens Note post Jeff mentions the following: "While it is vital to always "take care" of the wants/needs of veteran collectors, we need to keep the new players in our thoughts"

The fact that there are 4 UR slot expanders this year and the Skull doesn't jive well with that statement. To me the slot expanders cater more towards us vets and new players will have no use at all for the Skull. Maybe get rid of one or two and add a UR Figurine, Bead, some new pants for those that missed the Kilt or maybe a cool new UR Short Bow of some sort.

Oops. Edit - We already have some pants. Maybe new Gauntlets.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #20

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Your 'Base, low equipment party Healing math.' is still is figuring LoDS for both Cleric and Druid. Plus level bumps for Cleric, Druid, Bard. This does not seem like a fair comparison.

True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

jedibcg wrote: You cost analysis of The +5 Baton of Focus solely focuses on healing while the baton does more than that. It also pumps damage spells, which I admit on a 5th level Cleric is only 2 spells but that is still extra damage on both those spells. It also can but used as a melee weapon.

True, it can be used for the 2 damage spells and in melee. But if I want to heal AND fight, my optimal path is to get the Rare or Relic baton of healing, and then get the Keys. There is no upgrade path, even at UR level, that is more efficient to adding healing to the group.

Lets say I want to heal more given this build: www.truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=563&id=248928&start=0

What should my path be? The option are:

+5 Baton. Cost ~1250 (- whatever I can sell my +3 baton for). Yields 22 healing over the course of a dungeon and if I'm not casting prayer or bless, I can attack with it at +2 over my relic baton.

Boots of the 4 winds. Cost ~1100. Yields 44 healing over the course of a dungeon and +5 damage per attack.

Gloves of Glory and +3 Ring of Focus. Cost ~800. Yields 22 healing over the course of a dungeon... and +3 damage to 2 combat spells I'm probably not going to cast.

10 keys. Cost ~1000. Yields 44 healing from me over the course of the dungeon. Since my party has a level 5 bard and usually a level 5 druid, tack in another 88 healing for 132 total extra healing per dungeon.

jedibcg wrote: If you are looking for cost of a rare vs ultra-rare for any token and you look at cost vs damage output, you will always fine that dollars per damage goes down as rarity goes up. I don't know what healing would be different.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.


Mike is right, Key vs LInked Shirt.

And if you’re talking about fixed parties, your math may be right about 10 keys. However, I don’t think a party needs 10.
Your taunter, MEC Wizards, and Paladin might need lots of healing, so give keys to them. Everyone else can have a Greater Alchy Pouch and a handful of 1-point pots.

As a cleric who doesn’t join token pool groups, I’m going to reject the premise that it’s my responsibility to provide max healing for everyone in every random party. Everyone should bring some of their own healing, especially the MEC Wiz who plans on soaking up way more than their fair share of healing. That includes buying their own Key, because I promise you I won’t have any to share.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #21

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Endgame wrote: True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

I find fault with you calling it base low level healing. It isn't a base. It requires additional resources.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

I said comparing weapons. I said nothing about comparing the UR key to rare tokens.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.

Well yes and no. My Bot4W didn't cost me anywhere near ~$1100. 4 Pyp's and some trade goods. I don't have a +5 Baton of focus (yet), but it won't cost me $1250.
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Last edit: by jedibcg.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #22

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Your 'Base, low equipment party Healing math.' is still is figuring LoDS for both Cleric and Druid. Plus level bumps for Cleric, Druid, Bard. This does not seem like a fair comparison.

True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

jedibcg wrote: You cost analysis of The +5 Baton of Focus solely focuses on healing while the baton does more than that. It also pumps damage spells, which I admit on a 5th level Cleric is only 2 spells but that is still extra damage on both those spells. It also can but used as a melee weapon.

True, it can be used for the 2 damage spells and in melee. But if I want to heal AND fight, my optimal path is to get the Rare or Relic baton of healing, and then get the Keys. There is no upgrade path, even at UR level, that is more efficient to adding healing to the group.

Lets say I want to heal more given this build: www.truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=563&id=248928&start=0

What should my path be? The option are:

+5 Baton. Cost ~1250 (- whatever I can sell my +3 baton for). Yields 22 healing over the course of a dungeon and if I'm not casting prayer or bless, I can attack with it at +2 over my relic baton.

Boots of the 4 winds. Cost ~1100. Yields 44 healing over the course of a dungeon and +5 damage per attack.

Gloves of Glory and +3 Ring of Focus. Cost ~800. Yields 22 healing over the course of a dungeon... and +3 damage to 2 combat spells I'm probably not going to cast.

10 keys. Cost ~1000. Yields 44 healing from me over the course of the dungeon. Since my party has a level 5 bard and usually a level 5 druid, tack in another 88 healing for 132 total extra healing per dungeon.

jedibcg wrote: If you are looking for cost of a rare vs ultra-rare for any token and you look at cost vs damage output, you will always fine that dollars per damage goes down as rarity goes up. I don't know what healing would be different.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.


Mike is right, Key vs LInked Shirt.

And if you’re talking about fixed parties, your math may be right about 10 keys. However, I don’t think a party needs 10.
Your taunter, MEC Wizards, and Paladin might need lots of healing, so give keys to them. Everyone else can have a Greater Alchy Pouch and a handful of 1-point pots.

As a cleric who doesn’t join token pool groups, I’m going to reject the premise that it’s my responsibility to provide max healing for everyone in every random party. Everyone should bring some of their own healing, especially the MEC Wiz who plans on soaking up way more than their fair share of healing. That includes buying their own Key, because I promise you I won’t have any to share.


I agree with Brad on this, and have seen it in our DDA parties. The MEC Wizard brings potions or scrolls that heal 10pts with him all the time and will give them to the healers to help ease the healing strain. My wife and I will both be getting keys because it's free healing bonus for the healer in our group. I don't think it's a healers responsibility to get these keys to hand out.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #23

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

I find fault with you calling it base low level healing. It isn't a base. It requires additional resources.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

I said comparing weapons. I said nothing about comparing the UR key to rare tokens.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.

Well yes and no. My Bot4W didn't cost me anywhere near ~$1100. 4 Pyp's and some trade goods. I don't have a +5 Baton of focus (yet), but it won't cost me $1250.

Oh how I would love to trade 4 PyP and a few trade goods for Bot4W. Given I wasn't lucky enough to start during the Boots cycle, but I'm here now, I have to choose between Keys and boots. As slotless tokens equipped by the whole party, I don't see how I choose the boots.

I got the 1250 value on the +5 baton from token sites, but if I swing the discounts correctly I should be able to actually manage it for around 700 if I swing the right discounts and sell my +3 baton.
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2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images 1 month 1 week ago #24

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: True, but if a party can swing 10 keys, they can get 5 extra URs - 3 Rings of Fateful Heroism and 2 Lenses of Divine sight. If we are talking a rare and under party, then the Keys aren't in the discussion.

I find fault with you calling it base low level healing. It isn't a base. It requires additional resources.

Except in this case the UR keys are about as effective in $ per HP as rares... and they don't cause any opportunity cost to anyone's builds.

I said comparing weapons. I said nothing about comparing the UR key to rare tokens.

If I'm being realistic, the path that makes the most sense by far is to buy everyone keys, as I can spread key purchases out over 10 months instead of trying to do it in 1 big purchase. and it yields dramatically more healing than buying Bot4W, which is #2 on the list of effective purchases.

Well yes and no. My Bot4W didn't cost me anywhere near ~$1100. 4 Pyp's and some trade goods. I don't have a +5 Baton of focus (yet), but it won't cost me $1250.

Oh how I would love to trade 4 PyP and a few trade goods for Bot4W. Given I wasn't lucky enough to start during the Boots cycle, but I'm here now, I have to choose between Keys and boots. As slotless tokens equipped by the whole party, I don't see how I choose the boots.

I got the 1250 value on the +5 baton from token sites, but if I swing the discounts correctly I should be able to actually manage it for around 700 if I swing the right discounts and sell my +3 baton.


Your best value by far is 10 Linked Shirts of Healing and 10 Ioun Stone Agate Orbs. Twice the healing bonuses you can get from the Key, at a total price around $30 or $40 probably. FAR cheaper and more effective than the Keys (which is why I still think they were better at the original +3).
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