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TOPIC: Damage Timing

Damage Timing 3 months 1 week ago #1

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The following paragraph will appear in the next release of the PHB.
Damage Timing
All the damage the party deals to a monster in a given round occurs simultaneously. It's too cumbersome and time-consuming to debate over what specific character's damage occurred before or after another specific character's damage within a single round. However, players are free to determine when healing occurs during their turn. E.g., during a single turn, a cleric may choose to heal a wizard after the wizard uses Mad Evoker's Charm.
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Damage Timing 3 months 1 week ago #2

Does this also extend to all other effects a character to apply to a monster? Stunning strike, maze, resistance removal, and so on? Or is it a case-by-case situation?

In my head it makes sense to apply everything at the same time, but there could be effects I’m not thinking of.

For example, stunning strike isn’t counted until the hits are tallied, so the AC penalty doesn’t apply to the monster that turn. Or, the wizard casts Lesser Maze, but the party still has time to hit the monster that turn.

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Damage Timing 3 months 1 week ago #3

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BasicBraining wrote: Does this also extend to all other effects a character to apply to a monster?

Probably. Assume it does, but be open to the possibility of unanticipated exceptions.

BasicBraining wrote: stunning strike isn’t counted until the hits are tallied, so the AC penalty doesn’t apply to the monster that turn.

Correct.
Because the monster isn't stunned until after the hit occurs, and all the attacks occur simultaneously, at the exact moment the players' attacks hit, the monster's status hasn't changed.

BasicBraining wrote: Or, the wizard casts Lesser Maze, but the party still has time to hit the monster that turn.

A wizard can cast lesser maze whenever they want/are able, but per the PHB:
Lesser maze always takes effect at the end of the turn it is cast.
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Damage Timing 3 months 1 week ago #4

Wizard is low on HP and needs healed to use mad evoker charm, and so needs healing BEFORE damage.
Cleric has lenses of divine sight and has more healing than wizard can take.
Rest of party is full health BUT the Elf Wizard is also using mad evoker charm. So, cleric wants to give rest of healing to the elf wizard AFTER damage.

Can healing break the laws of timespace and heal both wizards?
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Damage Timing 3 months 6 days ago #5

kurtreznor wrote: Wizard is low on HP and needs healed to use mad evoker charm, and so needs healing BEFORE damage.
Cleric has lenses of divine sight and has more healing than wizard can take.
Rest of party is full health BUT the Elf Wizard is also using mad evoker charm. So, cleric wants to give rest of healing to the elf wizard AFTER damage.

Can healing break the laws of timespace and heal both wizards?


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Damage Timing 3 months 6 days ago #6

It'd make sense to me if you could - the MEC is paying HP to increase the damage of the spell, which happens before the spell damage is actually dealt (in the same way that using a consumable to increase a weapon's damage happens before the damage is dealt). So players should be able to perform their actions in any order - Elf Wizard uses MEC, Cleric heals both, Wizard casts spell. Total damage will then be applied later once all players have finished their actions.
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Damage Timing 3 months 6 days ago #7

jedibcg wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Wizard is low on HP and needs healed to use mad evoker charm, and so needs healing BEFORE damage.
Cleric has lenses of divine sight and has more healing than wizard can take.
Rest of party is full health BUT the Elf Wizard is also using mad evoker charm. So, cleric wants to give rest of healing to the elf wizard AFTER damage.

Can healing break the laws of timespace and heal both wizards?


I have a feeling someone's dream might be about to be crushed...lol.


Why? Druegar's post was about when damage done by players is applied to the monster, not about damage done by players to themselves. Elf casts their MEC spell, Cleric heals both Wizards, and then Wizard casts their MEC spell. Assuming the party is now done, the damage to the monster now gets applied.

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Damage Timing 3 months 6 days ago #8

Fiddy wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Wizard is low on HP and needs healed to use mad evoker charm, and so needs healing BEFORE damage.
Cleric has lenses of divine sight and has more healing than wizard can take.
Rest of party is full health BUT the Elf Wizard is also using mad evoker charm. So, cleric wants to give rest of healing to the elf wizard AFTER damage.

Can healing break the laws of timespace and heal both wizards?


I have a feeling someone's dream might be about to be crushed...lol.


Why? Druegar's post was about when damage done by players is applied to the monster, not about damage done by players to themselves. Elf casts their MEC spell, Cleric heals both Wizards, and then Wizard casts their MEC spell. Assuming the party is now done, the damage to the monster now gets applied.

Damage from MEC is applied before the spell is cast. That is clear on the tokendb so he didn’t have to say when it applies.
Q2) When does the wizard suffer the damage?
A2) The instant before the Spell is cast.

The order you put them in is not the same order that the original poster put them in. “Breaking time and space”. Doing it in the order you suggest would not break time and seems reasonable to me as they are healing both between their actions. I am saying the cleric could not heal the wizard first and then the elf wizard which is what I thought was being asked. If he is asking if the elf wizard can first be healed and then the wizard that does seem like it needed to be asked. Maybe I misunderstood. The misunderstanding might be by what he means by Damage. I read to be damage by the casters if so then no because damage happens at the same time. If he did mean damage to the casters then I agree with a proper order it would work.
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Last edit: by jedibcg.

Damage Timing 3 months 6 days ago #9

jedibcg wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Wizard is low on HP and needs healed to use mad evoker charm, and so needs healing BEFORE damage.
Cleric has lenses of divine sight and has more healing than wizard can take.
Rest of party is full health BUT the Elf Wizard is also using mad evoker charm. So, cleric wants to give rest of healing to the elf wizard AFTER damage.

Can healing break the laws of timespace and heal both wizards?


I have a feeling someone's dream might be about to be crushed...lol.


Why? Druegar's post was about when damage done by players is applied to the monster, not about damage done by players to themselves. Elf casts their MEC spell, Cleric heals both Wizards, and then Wizard casts their MEC spell. Assuming the party is now done, the damage to the monster now gets applied.

Damage from MEC is applied before the spell is cast. That is clear on the tokendb so he didn’t have to say when it applies.
Q2) When does the wizard suffer the damage?
A2) The instant before the Spell is cast.

The order you put them in is not the same order that the original poster put them in. “Breaking time and space”. Doing it in the order you suggest would not break time and seems reasonable to me as they are healing both between their actions. I am saying the cleric could not heal the wizard first and then the elf wizard which is what I thought was being asked. If he is asking if the elf wizard can first be healed and then the wizard that does seem like it needed to be asked. Maybe I misunderstood. The misunderstanding might be by what he means by Damage. I read to be damage by the casters if so then no because damage happens at the same time. If he did mean damage to the casters then I agree with a proper order it would work.


All the damage the party deals to a monster in a given round occurs simultaneously

This should be the clarification needed and it's the first sentence. The other damage in the example above is referring to damage done to the party by themselves.

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Damage Timing 3 months 6 days ago #10

Kusig wrote: The other damage in the example above is referring to damage done to the party by themselves.

Is it? Or is that how you read it?
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Last edit: by jedibcg.

Damage Timing 3 months 6 days ago #11

jedibcg wrote:

Kusig wrote: The other damage in the example above is referring to damage done to the party by themselves.

Is it? Or is that how you read it?


or is it that I assumed the damage done by the party is done at the end of the round, which has been customary across all my play sessions. I see what you did there. I guess there is a use case for heals to go off after damage is dealt if the monster has ret damage.

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Damage Timing 3 months 6 days ago #12

Kusig wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Kusig wrote: The other damage in the example above is referring to damage done to the party by themselves.

Is it? Or is that how you read it?


or is it that I assumed the damage done by the party is done at the end of the round, which has been customary across all my play sessions. I see what you did there. I guess there is a use case for heals to go off after damage is dealt if the monster has ret damage.


Your assumption therefore changes how you read the question. That is my point. I don't know what kurtreznor meant so I am asking. Not stating what he meant which seemed to be what you were doing. If not then I apologize but "The other damage in the example above is referring to damage done to the party by themselves." seems to be interpreting what seems to me to an ambiguous statement by what he meant by damage.
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