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TOPIC: Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace

Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 3 months 2 weeks ago #13

haasdt wrote:

Cranston wrote:

OrionW wrote:
Iktomi's desperately needs a buff to be competitive with the other class legendaries, so if TD wants to update Tokendb to give it the ability to cast free action spells I won't complain, but right now it definitely doesn't allow for it on its own.

I disagree. I find Iktomi's powerful enough. Being able to change your damage type for each room, and provide 10 DR for an elemental type is pretty powerful. I do a lot of damage as an elemental and can cast spells in elemental form providing the DR. Is it Divine Intervention, no, but still very powerful if used to full effect.


The thing is that these things you list are all at the Shaman's Greater Necklace Relic level. tokendb.com/token/shamans-greater-necklace/ All Iktomi does is let you cast spells while an elemental- so basically you get the 10 DR while casting. I think that is why there has been a general sentiment among Druid primaries that the step up to the legendary doesn't add as much as other classes legendaries do.

I know this got way off track from the original question. I'm glad this was all clarified though. The power buffing discussion is likely in other token threads.

Could always return the Relic back to the original ruling that you need a FA to poly. That would help make Iktomi's more distinct.

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Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 3 months 2 weeks ago #14

Beertram wrote:

Cranston wrote:

OrionW wrote:
Iktomi's desperately needs a buff to be competitive with the other class legendaries, so if TD wants to update Tokendb to give it the ability to cast free action spells I won't complain, but right now it definitely doesn't allow for it on its own.

I disagree. I find Iktomi's powerful enough. Being able to change your damage type for each room, and provide 10 DR for an elemental type is pretty powerful. I do a lot of damage as an elemental and can cast spells in elemental form providing the DR. Is it Divine Intervention, no, but still very powerful if used to full effect.


The problem with that argument is most monsters who deal an elemental type are also resistant/immune to that same type. I primarily play a polymorph druid and I don't recall once being able to take advantage of the DR from Iktomi's.


Another complication is that you can’t change your polymorph in a room, which makes these powers even less useful (unless you have a bard or have run the dungeon before). If the polymorph rule was changed the items would be slightly more powerful.

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Last edit: by OrionW.

Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 3 months 2 weeks ago #15

Endgame wrote:

haasdt wrote:

Cranston wrote:

OrionW wrote:
Iktomi's desperately needs a buff to be competitive with the other class legendaries, so if TD wants to update Tokendb to give it the ability to cast free action spells I won't complain, but right now it definitely doesn't allow for it on its own.

I disagree. I find Iktomi's powerful enough. Being able to change your damage type for each room, and provide 10 DR for an elemental type is pretty powerful. I do a lot of damage as an elemental and can cast spells in elemental form providing the DR. Is it Divine Intervention, no, but still very powerful if used to full effect.


The thing is that these things you list are all at the Shaman's Greater Necklace Relic level. tokendb.com/token/shamans-greater-necklace/ All Iktomi does is let you cast spells while an elemental- so basically you get the 10 DR while casting. I think that is why there has been a general sentiment among Druid primaries that the step up to the legendary doesn't add as much as other classes legendaries do.

I know this got way off track from the original question. I'm glad this was all clarified though. The power buffing discussion is likely in other token threads.

Could always return the Relic back to the original ruling that you need a FA to poly. That would help make Iktomi's more distinct.


:blink: let’s not add insult to injury by making the relic worse as well. It is bad enough to have the worst class legendary in the game.

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Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 3 months 2 weeks ago #16

OrionW wrote: :blink: let’s not add insult to injury by making the relic worse as well. It is bad enough to have the worst class legendary in the game.


Ava's would like a word with you.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 3 months 2 weeks ago #17

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

OrionW wrote: :blink: let’s not add insult to injury by making the relic worse as well. It is bad enough to have the worst class legendary in the game.


Ava's would like a word with you.


Ava’s could use some tweaks for sure, but with charms moving towards +3 damage next year I think Ava’s + charm necklace could end up in a better place. I see it as clearly the second worst legendary… which is not a good place to be, but where there is a bit of daylight that maybe a strong neck slot item might move it up the list.

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Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 3 months 2 weeks ago #18

Something is always worst. Something moving up in rankings also means something else moves down in rankings.

Nor is it clear how you perfectly balance class specific tokens when classes don't all do the same things. Paladin gets a bunch of help others abilities, even if you are a ranged build. Cleric also gets a bunch of help others abilities. Other classes get damage.

Nor is it clear whether any effort should be made to balance the tokens to the extent it's even possible. Some classes are much less useful than others. While not the way to balance fighters, Viv's being so good (and Amulet of Noble Might being so numberrific) counteracts the low party value of fighters.

It can be fair to say that Iktomi's doesn't do what it's supposed to do and doesn't feel special because of it or to argue that taking only one aspect of a class and having a legendary push that aspect without others is undesirable**.

** I think all of the class legendaries should have been much more narrow in scope to give reasons to not run them in the name of build diversity. Kind of hard in Widseth's case, though, as what else would have made sense other than "do whatever you want, here are the best combat bonuses in the game"?

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Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 3 months 2 weeks ago #19

Ian Lee wrote: Something is always worst. Something moving up in rankings also means something else moves down in rankings.

Nor is it clear how you perfectly balance class specific tokens when classes don't all do the same things. Paladin gets a bunch of help others abilities, even if you are a ranged build. Cleric also gets a bunch of help others abilities. Other classes get damage.

Nor is it clear whether any effort should be made to balance the tokens to the extent it's even possible. Some classes are much less useful than others. While not the way to balance fighters, Viv's being so good (and Amulet of Noble Might being so numberrific) counteracts the low party value of fighters.

It can be fair to say that Iktomi's doesn't do what it's supposed to do and doesn't feel special because of it or to argue that taking only one aspect of a class and having a legendary push that aspect without others is undesirable**.

** I think all of the class legendaries should have been much more narrow in scope to give reasons to not run them in the name of build diversity. Kind of hard in Widseth's case, though, as what else would have made sense other than "do whatever you want, here are the best combat bonuses in the game"?


If we’re ideating I have suggestions for a bard legendary necklace!
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats

Trade thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253064#406060

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Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 3 months 2 weeks ago #20

macxdmg wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: Something is always worst. Something moving up in rankings also means something else moves down in rankings.

Nor is it clear how you perfectly balance class specific tokens when classes don't all do the same things. Paladin gets a bunch of help others abilities, even if you are a ranged build. Cleric also gets a bunch of help others abilities. Other classes get damage.

Nor is it clear whether any effort should be made to balance the tokens to the extent it's even possible. Some classes are much less useful than others. While not the way to balance fighters, Viv's being so good (and Amulet of Noble Might being so numberrific) counteracts the low party value of fighters.

It can be fair to say that Iktomi's doesn't do what it's supposed to do and doesn't feel special because of it or to argue that taking only one aspect of a class and having a legendary push that aspect without others is undesirable**.

** I think all of the class legendaries should have been much more narrow in scope to give reasons to not run them in the name of build diversity. Kind of hard in Widseth's case, though, as what else would have made sense other than "do whatever you want, here are the best combat bonuses in the game"?


If we’re ideating I have suggestions for a bard legendary necklace!


Isn't that basically tokendb.com/token/necklace-of-the-songbird/
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace 3 months 2 weeks ago #21

OrionW wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

OrionW wrote: :blink: let’s not add insult to injury by making the relic worse as well. It is bad enough to have the worst class legendary in the game.


Ava's would like a word with you.


Ava’s could use some tweaks for sure, but with charms moving towards +3 damage next year I think Ava’s + charm necklace could end up in a better place. I see it as clearly the second worst legendary… which is not a good place to be, but where there is a bit of daylight that maybe a strong neck slot item might move it up the list.

Charm necklace doesn’t add much to a build now that we have Luna’s. 9 charms with Luna’s and Arcane Earcuff, vs 10 charms with Luna’s and charm necklace.

In basically every case I’ve looked at, using arcane Earcuff + Medallion of Valhalla / Stu’s / Champion / Sweetwoods / Amulet of Guarding is better than using charm necklace and another Earcuff. You just can’t get 7 attributes worth of value out of 1 charm.

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