TOPIC: Rules question.

So,,, silly question for all the rules lawyers here: the 2009 and 2011 version of scroll Endure Elements says "all" on the bottom of the token where who can use it is listed. Does this mean that if I possess this version that I can cast it as a dwarf fighter? It does say "all".

The Token DB should always be your first stop when you have a token question.

That scroll can only be used by classes that can use scrolls: bard, cleric, druid, elf wizard, paladin, ranger and wizard.

I did look there first, but it makes no mention of any override/revision of the "All" stated on the 2009 and 2011 tokens.
Hence my question here of an admittedly picky but technically correct interpretation. If Jeff ever reads this,,, please add something to the database to acknowledge wording of the older versions and clarify the token usage.

FWIW this is in the Player's Handbook:

PHB wrote: Prior to 2012, there were three classes of scroll tokens: All, Arcane, and Divine. From 2012 onward, all scroll tokens specify exactly which classes are able to cast them. Should you happen to run across
one of these older scrolls, the aforementioned designations refer to:
• All: all spellcasters, specifically bard, cleric, druid, elf wizard, paladin, ranger, and wizard. The “All” designation refers to all spellcasters, it does not mean the scroll can be cast by all 12 classes.
• Arcane: bard, elf wizard, and wizard
• Divine: bard, cleric, and druid

In all fairness, though, people often reference as Token DB as the first and best stop for information, so it's reasonable to look there.

Mongo64 wrote: I did look there first, but it makes no mention of any override/revision of the "All" stated on the 2009 and 2011 tokens.
Hence my question here of an admittedly picky but technically correct interpretation. If Jeff ever reads this,,, please add something to the database to acknowledge wording of the older versions and clarify the token usage.

In addition to the tokendb being the bible of tokens, the Players Handbook can be helpful as well. "All" means all spellcasters, not all classes.

truedungeon.com/resources/item/100-players-handbook

Page 53:

Prior to 2012, there were three classes of scroll tokens: All, Arcane, and Divine. From 2012 onward, all scroll tokens specify exactly which classes are able to cast them. Should you happen to run across one of these older scrolls, the aforementioned designations refer to:

• All: all spellcasters, specifically bard, cleric, druid, elf wizard, paladin, ranger, and wizard. The “All” designation refers to all spellcasters, it does not mean the scroll can be cast by all 12 classes.

• Arcane: bard, elf wizard, and wizard

• Divine: bard, cleric, and druid

I do know that in 2009, i was on a run and it was successfully argued that "all" meant exactly that...ALL.

I also know that there have been a lot of rules fine tuned since.

when all else fails... ask big man dan, and see if you can get some chocolate milk and cookies.

Ok, so being the mentally lazy person that I can be,,, I don't have all the books memorized off the top of my head,,, so I posted where the shark tank lawyers hang out......😆😆
Question answered with documentation provided. I came to the right place. 😃

In addition to the excellent Player’s Handbook info referenced above, the Token DB entry lists who may use the scroll. See attached.

Yes, I saw that,, but it shows the picture of the newer version with the classes specifically listed for the newer version. No mention of any interpretation of the older versions in the database. Again nitpicking a fussy moot point that I now know that the phb addressed,,, just saying that a short clarification should be added to the database.

Ah, I think I understand the confusion. You were looking at the picture, which is the 2014 version (which lists classes), and wondered if the “All” on the 2009 and 2011 versions means “all classes,” not “all spellcasters.”

I was looking at the text of the Token DB entry itself, which says that it applies to the 2009, 2011, and 2014 versions of the token, and has a limited list of users. It’s my belief that the Token DB entry’s list of “Usable By” applies to ALL versions of the token. If the list of “Usable By” was different for the different years, there would be a note, or maybe separate entries. I wouldn’t expect a note to say “The earlier versions of this token say “All, but the more limited list here is what applies to all versions.” That’s implied by the use of one entry for all three years. (I don’t speak for TDHQ, of course.) Here, the Player’s Handbook provides further clarification.

Paladins can cast? I missed that factoid along the way!

BeLinda Mathie wrote: If the list of “Usable By” was different for the different years, there would be a note, or maybe separate entries.

correct

BeLinda Mathie wrote: The Token DB should always be your first stop when you have a token question.

BeLinda Mathie gets a cookie!