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TOPIC: Anyone playing VTD please read

Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #49

bpsymington wrote: I remember how serious this issue was when we had actual treasure stamps - people were desperate to get the stamps and it was not uncommon for some players to spoil room solutions to make sure they got the stamp.

As an AC I remember having to talk with players about spoiling rooms or hindering the play of others. I also remember talking with players complaining about members of their party running roughshod over them after their runs. Thankfully this was pretty unusual.

I definitely understand that a DM would mute a problem player - I would think it would only last for a room, and lesson should be learned. If it happened more often, then a director (or AC in ATD) might need to get involved.


So “running roughshod” is an interesting phrase I wish I could have had ready for Andrew in at least one VTD I’ve been part of.

There are two guys I’ve run with most of VTD, and there is a Druid-wizard we no longer ever wish to run with. I tried to introduce someone in VTD and this guy convinced them to not play unless I could promise nobody like that on a run.

I don’t know how to feel about this thread, and I keep not posting because I love loaning out tokens and love borrowing tokens. I think it’s my inner bard, just wanting to help, you do the heavy lifting please, thanks. Or the fact that I love loaning out token pulls, I can only pull so many, and I can loan out so many more, and I don’t even have the 10x CoA, IS[x]N set.

I wish I could have a word to share, like “lollipop” or “Batman” for the epilogue to just signal to Andrew that there was a person issue on a run. It’s really hard in 12 minutes to say all the awesome things about a dungeon and also say “help” or “can you talk to the ticket owner please, the dwarf fighter ruined that run.” When the dwarf fighter is still on the call, and he won’t get off because he can’t stop talking because he wouldn’t stop talking for 2 hours including about how he has already run it and won’t spoil anything but keeps saying shit like “could it be two words?”

That’s probably what the chat is for, direct messages could solve my issues. Direct messages to the GM to give the puzzle answer so we don't take push damage, or ruin it for someone else. Direct messages to Andrew to indicate a player problem. I wonder if that could be made part of the “don’t be a dick” speech at the top of every VTD “if you have an answer please keep it to yourself if you’ve run it before and whisper it to the dm so they know not to say push damage.” Then hopefully nobody will ever hear after the question “how did you get that” an answer of “I didn’t want to spend the whole of the next room healing you so I just finished it”. At that point I’d rather hear “it’s simple my dear Watson, the answer was staring us in the face” or “the answer was in the lighting” or “I thought the Paladin was right he just started with the wrong number and the other single number was the correct starting point” anything except “the last run we figured it out”

TLDR use the private chat, or it will be used to hold you accountable if you ruin others play time
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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #50

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Greg (Fortunes) wrote: My personal pet peeve is players in the dungeon asking can I just give you the answer to the puzzle so we don't take push damage.

In my initial reading of this post, I now realize I most likely misunderstood Greg's use of pronouns. I incorrectly--I think--thought Greg was saying players were asking Greg to give them the answer to the puzzle to avoid Push. However, I think the intent was to say players wanted to send the puzzle's answer to Greg via private message so the party could avoid Push. Had I interpreted Greg's message that way the first time I read it, my reaction would have been far more tame. mea culpa
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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #51

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macxdmg wrote: I wish I could have a word to share, like “lollipop” or “Batman” for the epilogue to just signal to Andrew that there was a person issue on a run. It’s really hard in 12 minutes to say all the awesome things about a dungeon and also say “help” or “can you talk to the ticket owner please, the dwarf fighter ruined that run.” When the dwarf fighter is still on the call, and he won’t get off because he can’t stop talking because he wouldn’t stop talking for 2 hours including about how he has already run it and won’t spoil anything but keeps saying shit like “could it be two words?”

Could you privately message Epilogue Andrew?
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Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #52

On the rare occasions that I do the same run a second time and already know the answer to a puzzle room, I generally try to "discover" and share the same information I discovered on my first attempt, at around the same speed I found it the first time (maybe a bit faster/slower depending on what the new group figures out for themselves). This lets me still participate in the rooms without spoiling the room for anyone, which I've found works fairly well both for me and for the rest of the group. Sure, it means I sometimes take push damage, but it's not like that's going to kill my character and in the worst case I have plenty of potions I'm never likely to otherwise use.
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Last edit: by Iross.

Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #53

Druegar wrote:

macxdmg wrote: I wish I could have a word to share, like “lollipop” or “Batman” for the epilogue to just signal to Andrew that there was a person issue on a run. It’s really hard in 12 minutes to say all the awesome things about a dungeon and also say “help” or “can you talk to the ticket owner please, the dwarf fighter ruined that run.” When the dwarf fighter is still on the call, and he won’t get off because he can’t stop talking because he wouldn’t stop talking for 2 hours including about how he has already run it and won’t spoil anything but keeps saying shit like “could it be two words?”

Could you privately message Epilogue Andrew?


Yeah, I worked that out in my rant / may have deleted it, I’ve had 9 responses to this thread, and am pretty sure I only have one posted, and this reply now. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #54

I've received private message complaints for providing hints. So, for the last several events, I just keep my trap shut.

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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #55

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I am always grateful for people I run with because sometimes all I have time for is a Sunday evening run and the only one solving puzzles.

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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #56

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I always tell people that I'll help as little or as much as they want, anywhere from just announcing the answer at the start of the room to not saying a word until a puzzle is solved/we get pushed.

Seems the easiest way to handle it-let the people who are new to the run decide what they consider fun. Some people despise puzzles and are there because they love the combat and story, if they want the answer, I'll give it to them (assuming no one else in the run doesn't know, of course).

Usually I either end up quiet or giving out hints (which often means pointing out something someone working to solve it said that got skipped over).

Fortunately, I've never run into the "just let us do this for you" type in my years of playing. I can't imagine I would have a positive response.

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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #57

Greg (Fortunes) wrote: My personal pet peeve is players in the dungeon asking can I just give you the answer to the puzzle so we don't take push damage.

Phillip Evans wrote: If you are playing the dungeon and know the answers. Just message the dm tell them you have played and know the answers and I bet they won’t give you push damage if it comes down to time.

Reap wrote: Some DMs have offered to not give us push damage when they knew some people in the party had already solved it. So that is probably causing people to ask. It’s at least better than straight up giving the answer and ruining the puzzle solving experience.

This is surprising to me, as during DM training for V2 I was explicitly told this was not allowed - if a party wants to avoid push damage, their only option is to actually complete the puzzle.

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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #58

Andrew Knoll wrote:

Greg (Fortunes) wrote: My personal pet peeve is players in the dungeon asking can I just give you the answer to the puzzle so we don't take push damage.

Phillip Evans wrote: If you are playing the dungeon and know the answers. Just message the dm tell them you have played and know the answers and I bet they won’t give you push damage if it comes down to time.

Reap wrote: Some DMs have offered to not give us push damage when they knew some people in the party had already solved it. So that is probably causing people to ask. It’s at least better than straight up giving the answer and ruining the puzzle solving experience.

This is surprising to me, as during DM training for V2 I was explicitly told this was not allowed - if a party wants to avoid push damage, their only option is to actually complete the puzzle.


That seems like the best solution to me. Sending the answer via IM to the DM to avoid push damage doesn't seem quite kosher to me. I think most of the players in a position to know the answers to all the puzzles from the start are also the players who can absorb some push damage without too much trouble.

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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #59

Mike Steele wrote: That seems like the best solution to me. Sending the answer via IM to the DM to avoid push damage doesn't seem quite kosher to me. I think most of the players in a position to know the answers to all the puzzles from the start are also the players who can absorb some push damage without too much trouble.


I dont know. I think since we track our own HP, what does it really matter?
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Anyone playing VTD please read 1 month 1 week ago #60

Andrew Knoll wrote:

Greg (Fortunes) wrote: My personal pet peeve is players in the dungeon asking can I just give you the answer to the puzzle so we don't take push damage.

Phillip Evans wrote: If you are playing the dungeon and know the answers. Just message the dm tell them you have played and know the answers and I bet they won’t give you push damage if it comes down to time.

Reap wrote: Some DMs have offered to not give us push damage when they knew some people in the party had already solved it. So that is probably causing people to ask. It’s at least better than straight up giving the answer and ruining the puzzle solving experience.

This is surprising to me, as during DM training for V2 I was explicitly told this was not allowed - if a party wants to avoid push damage, their only option is to actually complete the puzzle.


I recall a very official forum post also explicitly stating that was not allowed. I didn't understand the reasoning behind it then, and I still don't.

A priori I can think of 4 plausible things one might hypothetically choose to do in this scenario:

1. spoil the puzzle (FFS NEVER DO THIS)
2. take push damage
3. message the DM privately that you know the solution (officially prohibited -- whyyyyy?)
4. "take push damage" but don't actually dock yourself the HP (definitely cheating, but doesn't actually harm anyone)

I personally am 100% fine with taking push damage, as I know many of us are. But let's specifically consider the small subset of players who absolutely will not willingly take push damage. If option 3 is impossible, and they won't choose 2, then they're left with either 1 or 4. Of those, I would much rather see them break the game rules than break Wheaton's Law, but they might not think of option 4, or they might be of "lawful neutral" temperament and consider "cheating" to be worse than ruining someone else's experience.

Allowing and publicizing option 3 would remove any incentive for those people to intentionally spoil puzzles, thereby making it much less likely that they would in fact intentionally spoil puzzles. What is the downside? As far as I can tell it produces strictly better outcomes for the people whose experience they would otherwise ruin, and does no harm to the game.

(Yes I realize the problem would not exist if everyone just followed Wheaton's Law in the first place, but clearly the problem isn't gone so it's worth thinking about what else can be done besides wishing for that.)
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