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TOPIC: Proposed change to Monk and Ranger bonuses

Proposed change to Monk and Ranger bonuses 1 month 4 days ago #97

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote: Curious to me why finese type melee folks use strength instead of dexterity as a too hit and damage modifier.


It was never added as a design potential for melee weapons and there are not enough +DEX items to make the damage viable on a ranged build.


Just curious if the numbers were run for those classes with two melee sliders what it would do. It would also allow uncoupling of the two melee sliders from those that just have one.


I think what Edwin was suggesting here is that monks and rangers, by virtue of their double attack, should be forced to use Dex to hit in melee rather than strength, while still using their strength modifier for damage.

I haven't done the math, but I suspect this would at least help bring the damage bonuses back into line, with all of the resultant benefits mentioned.


Just curious if someone could put together the BiS build so we can have a comparison.

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Proposed change to Monk and Ranger bonuses 1 month 4 days ago #98

edwin wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote: Curious to me why finese type melee folks use strength instead of dexterity as a too hit and damage modifier.


It was never added as a design potential for melee weapons and there are not enough +DEX items to make the damage viable on a ranged build.


Just curious if the numbers were run for those classes with two melee sliders what it would do. It would also allow uncoupling of the two melee sliders from those that just have one.


I think what Edwin was suggesting here is that monks and rangers, by virtue of their double attack, should be forced to use Dex to hit in melee rather than strength, while still using their strength modifier for damage.

I haven't done the math, but I suspect this would at least help bring the damage bonuses back into line, with all of the resultant benefits mentioned.


Just curious if someone could put together the BiS build so we can have a comparison.

Endgame and MasterEd recently did.

The to hit barely moved. Damage dropped a little bit, (+25 if memory serves, rather than +40)
First ever death in True Horde
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Proposed change to Monk and Ranger bonuses 1 month 4 days ago #99

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

edwin wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote: Curious to me why finese type melee folks use strength instead of dexterity as a too hit and damage modifier.


It was never added as a design potential for melee weapons and there are not enough +DEX items to make the damage viable on a ranged build.


Just curious if the numbers were run for those classes with two melee sliders what it would do. It would also allow uncoupling of the two melee sliders from those that just have one.


I think what Edwin was suggesting here is that monks and rangers, by virtue of their double attack, should be forced to use Dex to hit in melee rather than strength, while still using their strength modifier for damage.

I haven't done the math, but I suspect this would at least help bring the damage bonuses back into line, with all of the resultant benefits mentioned.


Just curious if someone could put together the BiS build so we can have a comparison.

Endgame and MasterEd recently did.

The to hit barely moved. Damage dropped a little bit, (+25 if memory serves, rather than +40)


Thxs

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Proposed change to Monk and Ranger bonuses 1 month 4 days ago #100

edwin wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

edwin wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote: Curious to me why finese type melee folks use strength instead of dexterity as a too hit and damage modifier.


It was never added as a design potential for melee weapons and there are not enough +DEX items to make the damage viable on a ranged build.


Just curious if the numbers were run for those classes with two melee sliders what it would do. It would also allow uncoupling of the two melee sliders from those that just have one.


I think what Edwin was suggesting here is that monks and rangers, by virtue of their double attack, should be forced to use Dex to hit in melee rather than strength, while still using their strength modifier for damage.

I haven't done the math, but I suspect this would at least help bring the damage bonuses back into line, with all of the resultant benefits mentioned.


Just curious if someone could put together the BiS build so we can have a comparison.

Endgame and MasterEd recently did.

The to hit barely moved. Damage dropped a little bit, (+25 if memory serves, rather than +40)


Thxs

See this thread
www.truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=568&id=250354&start=12#353090

28 melee and 35 ranged damage with 23 and 21 to hit.

You could boost melee damage further by swapping out ring of the yeti and other ranged damage boosters.

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Proposed change to Monk and Ranger bonuses 1 month 4 days ago #101

Fiddy wrote:

edwin wrote: Curious to me why finese type melee folks use strength instead of dexterity as a too hit and damage modifier.


It gets brought up almost every year in token suggestions. And then, it gets pointed out that if you let a build use DEX for melee to-hit and damage, the build can safely ignore STR entirely to boost DEX. And while you're boosting DEX, you automatically boost AC, Reflex saves, and ranged to-hit at the same time. And there's no penalty then for tokens that make tradeoffs to boost DEX and lower STR. There aren't other stats that care about STR, like there are that care about DEX.


Also, thrown weapons already let you use DEX to hit and STR to damage if you want.

So melee players can choose:

STR for hit and damage
DEX for hit and STR for damage (grants immunity to retribution and perhaps less hosing)

I think it would be neat to try out a STR to hit DEX for damage token at some point - probably start small like a UR weapon usable by Bard, Fighters, and Rogue.


I agree that if DEX is boosting:

Melee hit, melee damage, ranged hit, AC, Refex save it becomes the most valuable stat.

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