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TOPIC: So just got to ask...

So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #1

Now that Gencon is approaching its end, and the smoke has cleared from token creation. I just wanted to reach out to the community and ask what was going on with all the paladin class hate? Is there a reason or just in general people hate paladin?

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So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #2

Rizzen wrote: Now that Gencon is approaching its end, and the smoke has cleared from token creation. I just wanted to reach out to the community and ask what was going on with all the paladin class hate? Is there a reason or just in general people hate paladin?

I can never play paladin. So....
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So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #3

Rizzen wrote: Now that Gencon is approaching its end, and the smoke has cleared from token creation. I just wanted to reach out to the community and ask what was going on with all the paladin class hate? Is there a reason or just in general people hate paladin?


Can you be more specific, I'm not sure what you're referring to.

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So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #4

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rizzen wrote: Now that Gencon is approaching its end, and the smoke has cleared from token creation. I just wanted to reach out to the community and ask what was going on with all the paladin class hate? Is there a reason or just in general people hate paladin?


Can you be more specific, I'm not sure what you're referring to.


Well I could start with how hard the legendary was hit...but Its just a constant thing I have noticed in many different posts this year if someone said anything benefiting to the paladin class it seemed to get shot down very quickly..now that in mind I would like to say this year the volunteer staff have fixed the guard ignoring issue I always preach about so I do deeply thank all of you for doing so..but back to the point I mean just by going on token creation I felt like the holy avenger was the main topic over all like everyone was upset that the paladin class may get some really cool weapon or something.. I could be wrong o just am curious for peoples reasons as to why they thought it was over powered one way over the other... I personally felt that the second rendition was the best..this is just me trying to figure out why the community thought one way was better than the other.

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So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #5

Well ok that's fair but if you have any feed back I would love to hear it as I value every opinion I receive weather I agree or not

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So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #6

I don't hate any class, but as a DM I watch out for tokens that cause problems with game balance, module design, play speed, and rules interactions.

I also know that compared to D&D, the parties are bigger and due to sliding skill they roll better to hit rolls.

At various points there were problems with the Paladin legendary in those areas, and also with the other legendaries. I'll elaborate if interested.
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So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #7

Rizzen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rizzen wrote: Now that Gencon is approaching its end, and the smoke has cleared from token creation. I just wanted to reach out to the community and ask what was going on with all the paladin class hate? Is there a reason or just in general people hate paladin?


Can you be more specific, I'm not sure what you're referring to.


Well I could start with how hard the legendary was hit...but Its just a constant thing I have noticed in many different posts this year if someone said anything benefiting to the paladin class it seemed to get shot down very quickly..now that in mind I would like to say this year the volunteer staff have fixed the guard ignoring issue I always preach about so I do deeply thank all of you for doing so..but back to the point I mean just by going on token creation I felt like the holy avenger was the main topic over all like everyone was upset that the paladin class may get some really cool weapon or something.. I could be wrong o just am curious for peoples reasons as to why they thought it was over powered one way over the other... I personally felt that the second rendition was the best..this is just me trying to figure out why the community thought one way was better than the other.


I think the motives for the behavior you're concerned about might not be what you expect.

I agree there were lots of opinions expressed for and against various aspects of the Paladin legendary token.

I don't know what is going on in everyone's heads, but speaking for myself my comments about that token have nothing to do with my feelings about the Paladin class or the people who play it. I was against certain aspect of it, I was also the person who initially proposed grace should be the better of two rolls rather than a flat +3 (which improved it in my opinion).

If you'd like to have a productive dialog about why people were for or against the +5 Holy Avenger's various proposed versions, I'm sure we could have it - but having that discussion on the grounds that disagreeing with the token design is an expression of hate for a class that can use the token is not a great starting point for that.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #8

Kirk Bauer wrote: I don't hate any class, but as a DM I watch out for tokens that cause problems with game balance, module design, play speed, and rules interactions.

I also know that compared to D&D, the parties are bigger and due to sliding skill they roll better to hit rolls.

At various points there were problems with the Paladin legendary in those areas, and also with the other legendaries. I'll elaborate if interested.

I would definitely be interested in hearing the full thing on this..I made this thread to try and calmly hear people out instead of getting it to the well that suck mood..I have given my opinion on this alot and I'm sure everyone who has posted has already seen it.. so this is more of a thread for me to sit and listen to the different opinions. So I appreciate it that so many people are responding to this :) Thank you and everyone else who has or will be responding to this thread

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So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #9

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rizzen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rizzen wrote: Now that Gencon is approaching its end, and the smoke has cleared from token creation. I just wanted to reach out to the community and ask what was going on with all the paladin class hate? Is there a reason or just in general people hate paladin?


Can you be more specific, I'm not sure what you're referring to.


Well I could start with how hard the legendary was hit...but Its just a constant thing I have noticed in many different posts this year if someone said anything benefiting to the paladin class it seemed to get shot down very quickly..now that in mind I would like to say this year the volunteer staff have fixed the guard ignoring issue I always preach about so I do deeply thank all of you for doing so..but back to the point I mean just by going on token creation I felt like the holy avenger was the main topic over all like everyone was upset that the paladin class may get some really cool weapon or something.. I could be wrong o just am curious for peoples reasons as to why they thought it was over powered one way over the other... I personally felt that the second rendition was the best..this is just me trying to figure out why the community thought one way was better than the other.


I think the motives for the behavior you're concerned about might not be what you expect.

I agree there were lots of opinions expressed for and against various aspects of the Paladin legendary token.

I don't know what is going on in everyone's heads, but speaking for myself my comments about that token have nothing to do with my feelings about the Paladin class or the people who play it. I was against certain aspect of it, I was also the person who initially proposed grace should be the better of two rolls rather than a flat +3 (which improved it in my opinion).

If you'd like to have a productive dialog about why people were for or against the +5 Holy Avenger's various proposed versions, I'm sure we could have it - but having that discussion on the grounds that disagreeing with the token design is an expression of hate for a class that can use the token is not a great starting point for that.

ok well I personally think you are taking the word hate too literal in this since and need to realize that this is just someone asking why people didn't like what. There are multiple people I have talked to in person who did not like this or that and there is a n entire thread about it and how they are unhappy with it but will still buy it..however on this specific token it felt like the masses were rallying against it I have not been play as long as most people currently in this thread and have only actively taken part in maybe 2 or 3 token creations so it just seemed like everyone was I would say arguing but for you I will Expressing themselves about the Holy avenger..I don't think you should get lost on one word like and miss the purpose behind my thread..in D&D terms I'm rolling my gather information check..the fact I got Laz, Kirk, and yourself to respond to this almost immediately I would say I rolled a 16-17 so think you but dont be offended by wording unless it is directed at you :)

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So just got to ask... 4 months 3 days ago #10

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Rizzen wrote: Now that Gencon is approaching its end, and the smoke has cleared from token creation. I just wanted to reach out to the community and ask what was going on with all the paladin class hate? Is there a reason or just in general people hate paladin?

I can never play paladin. So....

I still appreciate any commentary you may have :)

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So just got to ask... 4 months 2 days ago #11

My opinions on Token design stem from my viewpoints on game balance, regardless of character class.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein

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So just got to ask... 4 months 2 days ago #12

Rob F wrote: My opinions on Token design stem from my viewpoints on game balance, regardless of character class.


Sure but give me the details why or what swayed you one way over the other

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