TOPIC: Questions From a First Timer

Technically not my first time, but there was over a ten year gap since the last time I played.
First time on the forums though!

Questions:
1) It appears that death has no meaning. Our trainer stated the only difference between novice and normal is that you do not come back to life in normal. If that is true, then why would anyone risk the normal difficulty and thus risk everything?

2) If death has meaning, then how many players are needed to successfully make it through the level? If 5 characters die, but the rest make it, for example.

3) If death has no meaning, what is the meaning behind the treasure tokens?

4) Is there somewhere I can see the differences on the higher levels? Such as difficulty level of the monsters, are the puzzles harder, is there an increase in treasure due the higher level, etc.

I definitely feel as though I am missing something regarding the difficulty levels. I appreciate the clarity in advance.

Outside of my questions, my family and I had a great time going through at PAX this weekend. When I asked them what their favorite part was of the convention, they all said True Dungeon. We hope you will return to PAX from here on out. Thanks!

Non lethal and Normal the monster have the same difficulty, difference in non lethal is dead players with very few exceptions can't help with combat or puzzles. Non-lethal let's you see the entire dungeon while if you are in normal and your entire party dies you are done.

Your coach didn’t have time to go into details, so simplified things for you. Death is a factor in the Player XP system (kind of a “frequent flyer program”)

Difficulty level also determines your completion token(s) you collect at the end.

www.truedungeon.com/how-to-play/item/12-rewards

And that’s why my wife and I always try to play on Nightmare - triple the Player XP and twice the completion tokens.

But for a group of newbies with minimum equipment, looking for maximum enjoyment with minimal stress of failure, Non-Lethal (or what I like to call “Care Bear”) is a great choice. Everything James said about the mechanics of death is spot-on.

Jared wrote: Technically not my first time, but there was over a ten year gap since the last time I played.
First time on the forums though!

Questions:
1) It appears that death has no meaning. Our trainer stated the only difference between novice and normal is that you do not come back to life in normal. If that is true, then why would anyone risk the normal difficulty and thus risk everything?

2) If death has meaning, then how many players are needed to successfully make it through the level? If 5 characters die, but the rest make it, for example.

3) If death has no meaning, what is the meaning behind the treasure tokens?

4) Is there somewhere I can see the differences on the higher levels? Such as difficulty level of the monsters, are the puzzles harder, is there an increase in treasure due the higher level, etc.

I definitely feel as though I am missing something regarding the difficulty levels. I appreciate the clarity in advance.

Outside of my questions, my family and I had a great time going through at PAX this weekend. When I asked them what their favorite part was of the convention, they all said True Dungeon. We hope you will return to PAX from here on out. Thanks!

1. Death has meaning. You are not allowed to fight, help with puzzles, or even talk with the other players (exceptions: there are items that negate the ability to talk and even a few that let you fight for a turn or two post death)

2. Number of players needed depends heavily on gear and experience. Also the puzzles. There are some puzzles where fewer people really hurts. My guess is the engine room puzzle this year is impossible with less than 5, but I could be mistaken. There are quite a few people who have attempted (and succeeded) solo through a dungeon. They usually have a lot more experience and know the dungeon beforehand and whether only one will be possible.

3. The treasure tokens are treasure! More gear please.

4. The best place to see the difficulty increase is by looking at the modules. The largest differences come in the monster's abilities and stats.

Here is an example:

Corrupted One
Normal:
Initiative Bonus: 0
Ac: 18
Attacks: +8 (melee)
Damage: 8 (physical)
Save Bonus: +8 all
HP: 100

Hardcore:
Initiative Bonus: +5
Ac: 22
Attacks: +12 (melee)
Damage: 12 (physical)
Save Bonus: +12 all
HP: 200

Nightmare:
Initiative Bonus: +10
Ac: 26
Attacks: +18 (melee)
Damage: +18 (physical)
Save Bonus: +18 all
HP: 300


There is another level above this as well with even more insane stats.

Some puzzles do more damage for failure and other things on higher levels as well.

As Brad pointed out, you get more player experience for playing higher levels, as well as different rewards.

As to why people would play higher difficulties anyway, you will find many on this board who have ridiculous collections of tokens. Normal or even hardcore are no longer challenges for some, and so they enjoy playing on the higher level difficulties.

Welcome (back) to the game! It's great here!



Edit:
Some more info can be found in the players handbook:
truedungeon.com/files/PHB.pdf
The bit about difficulty levels is on page 10

You've gotten some great, thorough answers here, so I'll just say welcome to the forums and hope to see you at PAX next year!

Jared wrote: Technically not my first time, but there was over a ten year gap since the last time I played.
First time on the forums though!

Questions:
1) It appears that death has no meaning. Our trainer stated the only difference between novice and normal is that you do not come back to life in normal. If that is true, then why would anyone risk the normal difficulty and thus risk everything?

To be honest it has a lot less meaning then it used to. TD is more of an experience at this point (at least before the last room).

Jared wrote: 2) If death has meaning, then how many players are needed to successfully make it through the level? If 5 characters die, but the rest make it, for example.

If anyone makes it through, they succeed of fail individually (at least in terms of survivor pins/XP). It wont have any impact on treasure

Jared wrote:
3) If death has no meaning, what is the meaning behind the treasure tokens?

Its fun to get stronger/ feels better to get past the last room. However you do get to a point where you are demonstrably to strong for normal and that gets less fun, especially if there are less geared people in your group who aren't having fun due to the imbalance.

Jared wrote:
4) Is there somewhere I can see the differences on the higher levels? Such as difficulty level of the monsters, are the puzzles harder, is there an increase in treasure due the higher level, etc.

I definitely feel as though I am missing something regarding the difficulty levels. I appreciate the clarity in advance.

As others have said, the modules mainly. Some puzzles solutions are also disallowed on higher difficulties.

Jared wrote:
Outside of my questions, my family and I had a great time going through at PAX this weekend. When I asked them what their favorite part was of the convention, they all said True Dungeon. We hope you will return to PAX from here on out. Thanks!

Glad to hear you all had fun

While the better rewards for higher difficulty levels is great, it's also important to play at the difficulty level that gives you the most enjoyment. And of course that can change over time.

My group, for example, usually plays Hardcore level. Even though we are probably outfitted well enough for Nightmare, and the extra completion token would be nice to have, we just find more enjoyment at Hardcore level.

Mike Steele wrote: While the better rewards for higher difficulty levels is great, it's also important to play at the difficulty level that gives you the most enjoyment. And of course that can change over time.

My group, for example, usually plays Hardcore level. Even though we are probably outfitted well enough for Nightmare, and the extra completion token would be nice to have, we just find more enjoyment at Hardcore level.

Its also worth mentioning that the higher difficulty tokens are usually but not always better

tokendb.com/token/horn-of-calling/
tokendb.com/token/horn-of-rally/

for example both horns are equally powerful when their respective effect comes up.

Non-lethal isn't a free pass, either.

If you die in a room, you stay dead for the duration of the 12 minutes that you're in that room.

When you walk into the next room you revive with 1 HP. If the latter room is combat and you're targeted early, you could be knocked out for most of the 12 minutes of that room as well.

Non-lethal guarantees that you'll get to begin each room in the adventure. How long you'll get to keep doing that can be completely random.

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: While the better rewards for higher difficulty levels is great, it's also important to play at the difficulty level that gives you the most enjoyment. And of course that can change over time.

My group, for example, usually plays Hardcore level. Even though we are probably outfitted well enough for Nightmare, and the extra completion token would be nice to have, we just find more enjoyment at Hardcore level.

Its also worth mentioning that the higher difficulty tokens are usually but not always better

tokendb.com/token/horn-of-calling/
tokendb.com/token/horn-of-rally/

for example I both horns are equally powerful when their respective effect comes up.

True, although in Nightmare you get both, which is a really nice perk.

Jared,

I was probably your coach so I apologize for any confusion. I probably said to your group that in the dungeon time is your enemy. Well, time is my enemy in the coaching room everybody’s very excited about their tokens trying to decide which character class to get played and I have a very short amount of time to get all of my information across and get your information recorded on the party card. I usually try to explain that there are five different difficulty levels starting with epic, nightmare, hard-core which I explain are completely inappropriate for the level of gear that the group has. I then usually try to go on and say that the two most appropriate will be either normal or non-lethal. Since it has been thoroughly explained in previous post I won’t going to details but often times I’m caught between the clock and a hard place trying to get the entire party recorded.

So once again I apologize for the confusion but I do want to welcome you back to the game and welcome you to the forums

Bob Chasan wrote: Jared,

I was probably your coach so I apologize for any confusion. I probably said to your group that in the dungeon time is your enemy. Well, time is my enemy in the coaching room everybody’s very excited about their tokens trying to decide which character class to get played and I have a very short amount of time to get all of my information across and get your information recorded on the party card. I usually try to explain that there are five different difficulty levels starting with epic, nightmare, hard-core which I explain are completely inappropriate for the level of gear that the group has. I then usually try to go on and say that the two most appropriate will be either normal or non-lethal. Since it has been thoroughly explained in previous post I won’t going to details but often times I’m caught between the clock and a hard place trying to get the entire party recorded.

So once again I apologize for the confusion but I do want to welcome you back to the game and welcome you to the forums

I am not sure if you were my coach, so hopefully you aren't taking it too hard. It's definitely a whirlwind of activity for the volunteers. I was impressed with the patience given the quick timing and tons of questions people asked. Most of those questions I am sure are asked over and over for 3-4 days straight, 12 hours a day. I thought everyone did a great job.

My gamer side in me is what made me wonder. I thought "Why risk dying if you can just come back to life the next room and make it out alive, survivor badge and all?" It seems the non lethal version is ideal for new players. Takes a lot of the pressure off where they can focus on enjoying the experience.

Having the additional challenge, treasure draws, and better players for higher levels sounds great. I am looking forward to learning all I can between now and then.

But please, don't feel bad for a second about the coaching session, if indeed you were my coach. I felt it was clear, helpful for all in the room, and very patient with the rapid fire questioning you were receiving from 7 new players all at once!