TOPIC: Many combat GMs ignored Charm of Shadowshot

We ran N1, N2, and N3. Most of the combat GMs looked at the Charm of Shadow Shot and would pass it back to our ranger and say "That's not a weapon." and would only count the main weapon damage.

Super frustrating.

What events, what times, what rooms. That needs to be monitored. Combat GMs should know what the token does.

That sort of thing should be reported to an Adventure Coordinator. You can ask the DM to call one, but most groups don't do that as it consumes precious time. But certainly talk one after the run.

As a DM I admit this token is confusing and the text doesn't help. Apparently both pucks have to hit for this damage to be added.

Tokendb doesn't specify but I have to assume you use the Ranger's ranged to hit bonus when determining if the charm hits.

Not excusing it of course. If it wasn't on the DM quiz this year it needs to be added.

I used it in N3 Saturday and didn’t have any problems. I wouldn’t know if it was added correctly however.

Kirk Bauer wrote: As a DM I admit this token is confusing and the text doesn't help. Apparently both pucks have to hit for this damage to be added.

Tokendb doesn't specify but I have to assume you use the Ranger's ranged to hit bonus when determining if the charm hits.

Not excusing it of course. If it wasn't on the DM quiz this year it needs to be added.

Charm of Shadow Shot

Yeah, I agree with you Kirk. Nowhere on the token does it say that both pucks have to hit. The text on the token just says "If this hits, adds 6 pts Piercing". From my reading, that means that just the Charm has to slide a hit to get the 6 damage.

Was both pucks hitting for the damage a post-printing errata or something?

Kirk Bauer wrote: Tokendb doesn't specify but I have to assume you use the Ranger's ranged to hit bonus when determining if the charm hits.

The TDb entry for Charm of Shadow Shot says:
the slide is affected by the ranger’s Missile To Hit modifiers on the party card.

Randy. wrote:
Charm of Shadow Shot

Yeah, I agree with you Kirk. Nowhere on the token does it say that both pucks have to hit. The text on the token just says "If this hits, adds 6 pts Piercing". From my reading, that means that just the Charm has to slide a hit to get the 6 damage.

Was both pucks hitting for the damage a post-printing errata or something?

Your quote is incomplete. It says add 6 to “final damage tally.”

It seemed obvious to me: if your bow misses, it does no damage so there is no damage tally to add Shadowshot to. Therefore, the charm does no damage if the weapon puck misses.

Seems to me it could use different and/or fewer words if it was intended to do damage when the bow missed:

“Does unmodified 6 piercing damage” Or something.

That’s how I interpreted it.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Randy. wrote:
Charm of Shadow Shot

Yeah, I agree with you Kirk. Nowhere on the token does it say that both pucks have to hit. The text on the token just says "If this hits, adds 6 pts Piercing". From my reading, that means that just the Charm has to slide a hit to get the 6 damage.

Was both pucks hitting for the damage a post-printing errata or something?

Your quote is incomplete. It says add 6 to “final damage tally.”

It seemed obvious to me: if your bow misses, it does no damage so there is no damage tally to add Shadowshot to. Therefore, the charm does no damage if the weapon puck misses.

Seems to me it could use different and/or fewer words if it was intended to do damage when the bow missed:

“Does unmodified 6 piercing damage” Or something.

That’s how I interpreted it.

It was 100% clear to me during design that both pucks had to hit due to discussion.

I'm not saying that's evident in the tdb entry or the token text, just that that was clearly the design intent.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Randy. wrote:
Charm of Shadow Shot

Yeah, I agree with you Kirk. Nowhere on the token does it say that both pucks have to hit. The text on the token just says "If this hits, adds 6 pts Piercing". From my reading, that means that just the Charm has to slide a hit to get the 6 damage.

Was both pucks hitting for the damage a post-printing errata or something?

Your quote is incomplete. It says add 6 to “final damage tally.”

It seemed obvious to me: if your bow misses, it does no damage so there is no damage tally to add Shadowshot to. Therefore, the charm does no damage if the weapon puck misses.

Seems to me it could use different and/or fewer words if it was intended to do damage when the bow missed:

“Does unmodified 6 piercing damage” Or something.

That’s how I interpreted it.

I just took "final damage tally" to mean that, as the DM is tallying up the damage done to the monster during that round, he/she would add 6 points to it. So, the DM would see that the Barbarian did 30 damage, the Paladin did 20 damage, and the Ranger's Charm added 6 points to those 50, for a final damage tally of 56.

Mind you, I'm not saying that it should work this way. Just that the text on the token is not very helpful in determining how DMs should handle it, so a little bit of confusion on their part is understandable this first year.

I will make a note to contact all of combat dms and make sure they respond appropriately to tokens they do not understand.

@Randy - I didn’t word my answer very well.

When I said it was “obvious to me,” that doesn’t mean it had to be obvious to everyone. One of the perils of being in on design discussions is that the things you hear become unconscious assumptions.

I’m sure a lot of people who didn’t have that background read the token and their interpretation is “obvious” to them, even if it differs from mine.

Anyway, I hope I didn’t offend anyone.