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TOPIC: NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting"

NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #1

Again your feedback has been very good and we are going to further tweak the rules as below. We are shifting our efforts to the Training Rooms, testing it at Origins, and then tweaking again for Gen Con.


New “Super Official” Rules < I mean it this time! :blush:

1) Attendees of a Con cannot enter any Training Area unless they are wearing a wristband for that event slot. Attendees of a Con cannot enter the Epilogue Area through the EXIT door. Only folks coming out of Room 7 can enter the area.

2) The loaning of TEs is permissible, but it can only be done by someone who is in a given event slot. The loaner player must have the same time on their wristband as the loanee.

3) All players who wish to use TEs must present them to their Trainer for authentication inside the Training Room. The TEs must be placed on a special well-lit pedestal, and they must not be contained within any kind of enclosure. Once the Trainer has verified their TE tokens are real, the total of earned Treasure Chips will be recorded on the Party Card for that character. The Trainer will check each player, one at a time, during the training session in a manner that is the least disruptive. It is hoped that groups with lots of TEs really won't need the training...

4) When players arrive at the Epilogue Room, they will present the Party Card to the volunteer, and they will use the totals on the Party Card to award Treasure Coins. They do not need to show their TEs to the volunteer at the Epilogue desk.

Ghosting rules remain as before:

5) Ghosting is allowed at Gen Con, but the maximum number of Ghost characters that can receive any TE bonus is set at five characters. All Ghost characters can equip TEs if they wish, but only five Ghost characters will receive any Treasure Chips. Thus, if one person buys out the slot of all 10 tickets, five of the ghost characters can have a number entered on the Treasure Draw area on the Party Card, but four will be left blank. The final 10th character’s TE bonus will, of course, be that of the actual single player. Another example is one with 5 actual players and 5 Ghost players. In this case, all 10 characters can have a number entered into the Treasure Draw area on the Party Card.

In addition, the above rules apply to the Participation tokens in the same fashion – so that up to five Ghost characters can receive their Participation tokens in the Epilogue Room.

6) Due to the lower event ticket cost and lower number of available tickets at non-Gen Con conventions, Ghosting is NOT allowed at non-Gen Con conventions. No Treasure Chips nor Participation tokens will be awarded to ANY Ghost characters. If you really want all the cool Treasure Chips and Participation tokens, find some newbies to go on runs with you and give them your tickets. Maybe they will hand over their earned Treasure Chips and Participation tokens as a thank you.
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Last edit: by Jeff Martin.

NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #2

Like the things that have changed.

Would still like allowance for 1 or two ghosts at "other" Cons to deal with any last minute no shows.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #3

Harlax wrote: Like the things that have changed. shows.


Agreed. I think the trainer-tweak addresses the cross-party lending issues.

Would still like allowance for 1 or two ghosts at "other" Cons to deal with any last minute no shows.


If you can return tickets for a refund, that helps mitigate things.

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte

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NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #4

Thanks Jeff, for changing the verification stage from Coaching to Training.

Not only does that make things a lot easier for the players (who often meet up with the ticket buyer in the coaching room), but having this in training, right before the dungeon, also improves security.

B)

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NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #5

Harlax wrote:
Would still like allowance for 1 or two ghosts at "other" Cons to deal with any last minute no shows.


Yeah...sorry. Gamers are gonna game the system, and I am afraid any exception will be exploited. Let's see how it goes at Origins.
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NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #6

Jeff,

Thanks as always for listening to all of our feedback. I think the treasure-enhancer rules are just perfect, but we'll see at Origins. This will also help the non-training coaches since they won't have to deal with TEs.

I don't hate the limitations on ghosting, but I don't love them either. But I don't think I have the data to say how good or bad it will be. At GenCon I doubt there are many runs with more than 5 ghosts anyways. Mostly I regret not doing a solo run while it was more affordable. I do think at smaller events if you don't have a ticket sell-out you could open up ghosting perhaps. But by then perhaps all the serious players will already have locked in their plans.

PS - you will need to emphasize to the trainers that players can't leave the training room after they get their treasure tokens recorded. Perhaps they should mention that right away: "if you have treasure-enhancers, put them over here, but remember you can't leave the dungeon after that without forfeiting your run".
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Last edit: by Kirk Bauer.

NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #7

now to throw another monkey wrench in

What if the player holding the TEs, dies in room 3 (needs to leave restroom, sick ..etc). How will that be handled
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NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #8

Jeff Martin wrote:

Harlax wrote:
Would still like allowance for 1 or two ghosts at "other" Cons to deal with any last minute no shows.


Yeah...sorry. Gamers are gonna game the system, and I am afraid any exception will be exploited. Let's see how it goes at Origins.


You aren't wrong about gaming the system.

I agree with Brad that a robust refund system mitigates my concern. Hopefully the other cons have a better system than GenCon.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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Last edit: by Harlax.

NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #9

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: now to throw another monkey wrench in

What if the player holding the TEs, dies in room 3 (needs to leave restroom, sick ..etc). How will that be handled


They don't need to be shown in Epilgoue, but that player could still pass them off to another party?

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NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #10

balthasar wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: now to throw another monkey wrench in

What if the player holding the TEs, dies in room 3 (needs to leave restroom, sick ..etc). How will that be handled


They don't need to be shown in Epilgoue, but that player could still pass them off to another party?


Since I usually run with my son, I'm sure he would have that covered. ;) I officially give him permission to loot my corpse. :P
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #11

Jeff, thanks for the changes, it's greatly appreciated.

I do agree with Kirk, this only works if the Training Room is treated like a room of the Dungeon. Nobody from outside the group can come in, and if anybody in the group leaves the Training Room (at least after Token verification) they cannot return and their Dungeon experience is over. If someone does leave and end their adventure, their name should be documented to make sure it isn't a pattern (i.e., that they are the ones with the tokens, and leaving to give the tokens to another group after token verification).

I think it's a great idea to give this a dry run at Origins and then tweak if necessary.

Thanks!!
Mike

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NEWEST! Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 5 years 1 month ago #12

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Brad Mortensen wrote:

Harlax wrote: Like the things that have changed. shows.


Agreed. I think the trainer-tweak addresses the cross-party lending issues.

Would still like allowance for 1 or two ghosts at "other" Cons to deal with any last minute no shows.


If you can return tickets for a refund, that helps mitigate things.


Someone said at Origins you cannot refund a ticket unless the event is cancelled.


I am fine with the ruling. Only thing it affects for me is I will not host any runs at conventions besides Gen Con. I have had whole groups not show for a run. It is rare and it pisses me off, but having something to fall back on is nice. This is not an issue though that TD doesn't have fix though so I will just adjust my ticket purchasing for other cons to only buying tickets for myself. I will still do theme runs but I am not going to risk buying all the tickets and getting stuck with one if someone no shows.
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