Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: OLD Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting"

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #25

I still believe there needs to be an extra step or two in the process. A random check of one or more players, while in the dungeon would add an extra layer of protection. I suggest small initials in the bot that records total treasure, much like the damage type symbols. The coach can either circle the tokens the player has, or cross out the ones they don't. An NPC or DM in any room can check a player or two and sign off on the card, maybe with a stamper. Any result of failure could require more checks as the party advances and the penalty would be fewer/no extra chips?
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #26

balthasar wrote: I still believe there needs to be an extra step or two in the process. A random check of one or more players, while in the dungeon would add an extra layer of protection. I suggest small initials in the bot that records total treasure, much like the damage type symbols. The coach can either circle the tokens the player has, or cross out the ones they don't. An NPC or DM in any room can check a player or two and sign off on the card, maybe with a stamper. Any result of failure could require more checks as the party advances and the penalty would be fewer/no extra chips?

Doing the checks in rooms will slow the room down. Someone is going to think that is more important than the room.
That could eat up the groups time in that room.
I think that should be the last thing the coach checks( which I usually do because late arrivals ) before the group goes into the training room.

Then get the TE person or group leader to initial so the agree ( I will do this if there is a line for it or not ).
Then that will stop a lot of these problems
delpchad.blogspot.com/

First solo Nightmare survivor-2014 Viper pit

Allergic to Lori
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #27

I was thinking after combat/puzzles. If you let all the DM/NPCs know, they can check if they have time after the actual dungeon content. I understand this is probably not the best idea, but people have presented several scenarios in which 'cheating' can happen. If the tokens aren't checked after the coaching room, are they going to keep people from checking bags, if that is an option, after registering the TEs? If not, they can easily be handed to another group.
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #28

balthasar wrote: I was thinking after combat/puzzles. If you let all the DM/NPCs know, they can check if they have time after the actual dungeon content. I understand this is probably not the best idea, but people have presented several scenarios in which 'cheating' can happen. If the tokens aren't checked after the coaching room, are they going to keep people from checking bags, if that is an option, after registering the TEs? If not, they can easily be handed to another group.


If you treat training as room 0, just do it there.
barkley.neo.rr.com -->see my trade thread HERE , my eBay store HERE or my web store HERE
"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #29

Echo the worry about coaching room used as common meetup for forum organized parties. Also to fact that some of us use it for dumping bag off to ag and restroom breaks between coach and training.

For volunteers just going to assume if we see a badge from True Adventures (gm badge) to ignore the no wristband?

Otherwise looks good Jeff, like having the 'responsible party member' sign off on the party card. Should help correct the times i have players come to me in training room to add or correct something.
We're all the kind of people who enjoy the game on a "meta" level. We like talking about the game year-round. We buy tokens. We enjoy crafting. We get together during the off-season if we can. We are a very skewed demographic that way. -Raven
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #30

Looks pretty good.

Like others I have concerns about getting tickets to folks since the coaching room is the best place. I have the tickets and the tokens. If I have wait outside the coaching for possible late folks that means everyone is going to be late getting tokens recorded by the coach. Not a deal breaker but please have another look at this.


If there is truly a concern for TE not actually being on the run that they are recorded for I don't think this has been addressed. As others have pointed out there is not anything to stop someone from leaving the coaching area after they are recorded and hand them off to someone else to be used in a simultaneous run.

I understand the concern for smaller conventions. I hope it is looked at again after we go through Origins and GHC to see how this may affect ticket sales. I know for Origins I was planning on buying up a run and attempting to fill in from people on the forums to do a theme run. However I will not risk that as if we don't get 10 people the tickets will need to be returned at a loss. There is nothing present to risk that loss.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #31

Why not eliminate ghosting all together at GenCon? I know this might be unpopular and I have not been playing nearly as long as most people. To me TD has always been about inclusion and fun, and for every ghost someone buys when tickets go on sale is one less ticket available for someone who really wants to try out TD.

I understand there is the wait list. Additionally there is a also a chance some tickets get turned back into the the ticketing system, but by that point most new players loose interest and/or don't want the hassle/uncertainty of the wait list. I have seen this first hand.

Aside from the people who want solo runs for the challenge and not the loot who is ghosting really benefiting? Is it the wealthy players with tokens worth more than my house/car who want more loot?

Just something to think about.
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #32

Kirk Bauer wrote: I worry that no ghosting at smaller conventions will cause the events to NOT sell out. Even with ghosting we had issues not selling out at WYC, for example. To me those were the best places to try creative runs due to the lower ticket costs. Perhaps consider just capping the treasure on ghosts, perhaps even at the base 3 treasure draws. In fact you could just use a cap on ghost treasure all around for treasure draws. At GenCon you could cap ghost treasure draws at say 10 draws, and at smaller conventions cap ghost treasure draws at 5 draws. This may be simpler than controlling the number of ghosts.


Just another thought on the matter. What if there was a cap for ghosting but the increased treasures were okay if you gave your open slots to randoms? This would allow for players who wanted to try out TD or could not get a time due to sold out tickets during any open time they had at the convention. I just wanted to throw this out there because this could also be a way to draw an increased interest in TD.
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #33

Phiswiz wrote: Why not eliminate ghosting all together at GenCon? I know this might be unpopular and I have not been playing nearly as long as most people. To me TD has always been about inclusion and fun, and for every ghost someone buys when tickets go on sale is one less ticket available for someone who really wants to try out TD.

I understand there is the wait list. Additionally there is a also a chance some tickets get turned back into the the ticketing system, but by that point most new players loose interest and/or don't want the hassle/uncertainty of the wait list. I have seen this first hand.

Aside from the people who want solo runs for the challenge and not the loot who is ghosting really benefiting? Is it the wealthy players with tokens worth more than my house/car who want more loot?

Just something to think about.


If you've read the threads you know it's a lot more complicated than that, and all of your questions have been addressed multiple times already
barkley.neo.rr.com -->see my trade thread HERE , my eBay store HERE or my web store HERE
"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte
Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #34

Phiswiz wrote: Why not eliminate ghosting all together at GenCon? I know this might be unpopular and I have not been playing nearly as long as most people. To me TD has always been about inclusion and fun, and for every ghost someone buys when tickets go on sale is one less ticket available for someone who really wants to try out TD.

I understand there is the wait list. Additionally there is a also a chance some tickets get turned back into the the ticketing system, but by that point most new players loose interest and/or don't want the hassle/uncertainty of the wait list. I have seen this first hand.

Aside from the people who want solo runs for the challenge and not the loot who is ghosting really benefiting? Is it the wealthy players with tokens worth more than my house/car who want more loot?

Just something to think about.


I've never ghosted, but consider: What if you have bought all 10 tickets, and your friend doesn't show up in time, you waited till that last minute to give them time to join the run, so it's not really enough time to back fill from the wait list. It's too late to get a refund for your ticket. It could be 9:00pm on Sat night, and there is no wait list. Your party wants to run on nightmare difficulty, and a wait-lister may force you to run on normal. This is a good case for ghosting, I've seen this happen.
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #35

Phiswiz wrote: Why not eliminate ghosting all together at GenCon? I know this might be unpopular and I have not been playing nearly as long as most people. To me TD has always been about inclusion and fun, and for every ghost someone buys when tickets go on sale is one less ticket available for someone who really wants to try out TD.

I understand there is the wait list. Additionally there is a also a chance some tickets get turned back into the the ticketing system, but by that point most new players loose interest and/or don't want the hassle/uncertainty of the wait list. I have seen this first hand.

Aside from the people who want solo runs for the challenge and not the loot who is ghosting really benefiting? Is it the wealthy players with tokens worth more than my house/car who want more loot?

Just something to think about.


There are at least two important issues that ghosting helps address:

1. Ghosting is often a byproduct of wanting to play Hardcore or Nightmare (or some other variant). If you want to get rid of Ghosting, then you really need to change the rules regarding the group selecting the difficulty level. For example, instead of needing 100% consensus, it should either be majority rules (6+) or set the threshold at 7 or 8 players need to agree.

One of the reasons ghosting is sometimes needed is when a 10-person run is arranged as Nightmare and then 1 person doesn't show. Allowing a waitlist, stranger, or newbie risks the chance that the person will not agree to Nightmare.


2. Ghosting is related to muling, at least in terms of obtaining treasure coins and making your extra TE's "work for you."

If there was no ghosting, then some people (e.g. those with 10 CoA's) might switch to muling instead. And while muling does have the benefit of exposing more people to TD, there is also the risk of poor interactions, if there are misunderstandings about the terms of the deal, or if people feel others are getting exploited.

There are also valid arguments of why the system should favor muling instead of ghosting. And there may be some players with poor personalities who you think are better off *not* interacting with impressionable newbies.... ;)
The topic has been locked.

Official Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting" 3 years 5 months ago #36

Graven wrote:

Phiswiz wrote: Why not eliminate ghosting all together at GenCon? I know this might be unpopular and I have not been playing nearly as long as most people. To me TD has always been about inclusion and fun, and for every ghost someone buys when tickets go on sale is one less ticket available for someone who really wants to try out TD.

I understand there is the wait list. Additionally there is a also a chance some tickets get turned back into the the ticketing system, but by that point most new players loose interest and/or don't want the hassle/uncertainty of the wait list. I have seen this first hand.

Aside from the people who want solo runs for the challenge and not the loot who is ghosting really benefiting? Is it the wealthy players with tokens worth more than my house/car who want more loot?

Just something to think about.


I've never ghosted, but consider: What if you have bought all 10 tickets, and your friend doesn't show up in time, you waited till that last minute to give them time to join the run, so it's not really enough time to back fill from the wait list. It's too late to get a refund for your ticket. It could be 9:00pm on Sat night, and there is no wait list. Your party wants to run on nightmare difficulty, and a wait-lister may force you to run on normal. This is a good case for ghosting, I've seen this happen.


Per Drueger's clarification in another thread a wait-lister can not force your party to run at a difficulty lower than what you want. The wait-lister must agree to the difficulty of the party if they want to take the slot.
GM and Producer of Tales From Mauxferry an actual play Blades in the Dark podcast.

Co-founder of RollPlus Con a yearly gaming getaway somewhere in southern Indiana. Many call it a D&D B&B~
The topic has been locked.
Time to create page: 0.211 seconds