TOPIC: OLD Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting"

A big thanks to the TD Community for giving us great feedback about Treasure Enhancers and Ghosting. I am sorry it took me so long to jump back in with my two cents worth. Our area received over 12 inches of rain this weekend, and our basement was a swamp. Luckily, our neighbors are amazing and the clean-up is nearly complete. Moving on…

The whole situation with Treasure Enhancing tokens and Ghost players has always been complicated. And with the addition of cheaper TD runs at Gamehole Con and Origins, it is now even more in need of review to adjust to the now-better treasure selection inside token generators.

Additionally, some veteran players and volunteer have raised concerns about fake TE tokens being used by players with binder pages full of perhaps fake TEs.

Finally, y’all have given some very good feedback regarding the previous official announcement regarding TEs. Thanks again for helping to fine tune our initiatives.

So…we have decided to alter our “official” rules about TEs, and we think we should talk about Ghosting as well.

New “Super Official” Rules

1) Attendees of a Con cannot enter the Coaching Area unless they are wearing a wristband for an event that is starting in the next 30 minutes. Attendees cannot enter a Coaching Room of a certain time unless they have the wristband for that given room. We reserve the right to ask to see the times printed on the wristbands, and we will remove anyone in violation.

2) The loaning of TEs is permissible, but it can only be done by someone who is in a given event slot. The loaner player must have the same time on their wristband as the loanee.

3) All players who wish to use TEs must present them to their Coach for authentication. The TEs must be placed on the table in front of the player, and they must not be contained within any kind of enclosure. Once the Coach has verified their TE tokens, their total of earned Treasure Chips will be recorded on the Party Card.

4) When players arrive at the Epilogue Room, they will present the Party Card to the volunteer, and they will use the totals on the Party Card to award Treasure Coins. They do not need to show their TEs to the volunteer at the Epilogue desk.

5) Ghosting is allowed at Gen Con, but the maximum number of Ghost characters that can receive any TE bonus is set at five characters. All Ghost characters can equip TEs if they wish, but only five Ghost characters will receive any Treasure Chips. Thus, if one person buys out the slot of all 10 tickets, five of the ghost characters can have a number entered on the Treasure Draw area on the Party Card, but four will be left blank. The final 10th character’s TE bonus will, of course, be that of the actual single player. Another example is one with 5 actual players and 5 Ghost players. In this case, all 10 characters can have a number entered into the Treasure Draw area on the Party Card.

In addition, the above rules apply to the Participation tokens in the same fashion – so that up to five Ghost characters can receive their Participation tokens in the Epilogue Room.

6) Due to the lower event ticket cost and lower number of available tickets at non-Gen Con conventions, Ghosting is NOT allowed at non-Gen Con conventions. No Treasure Chips nor Participation tokens will be awarded to ANY Ghost characters. If you really want all the cool Treasure Chips and Participation tokens, find some newbies to go on runs with you and give them your tickets. Maybe they will hand over their earned Treasure Chips and Participation tokens as a thank you.

Thank you for settling the issue on TE and ghosting.

Edwin

Wow, Thanks Jeff for the update.

I much more like the change to enforcing the coaching area!! I'm happy that players will be able to share their tokens with their team mates, and that the epilogue room will not be extra burdened.

I like this as well too. I'm really glad that we won't have to verify treasure enhancers in the epilogue room. I just hope that players realize that there's no saying in the epilogue room that the number on the card is wrong and that they must have made a mistake in the coaching room.

Jeff, thanks so much for your thoughtful and timely response to the volume of comments. I don't really have as much a stake in this as some others, but think the new rules are decently balanced. I'm sure some might disagree, but honestly that was going to happen no matter which way you ruled.

Kim Lindgren wrote: I like this as well too. I'm really glad that we won't have to verify treasure enhancers in the epilogue room. I just hope that players realize that there's no saying in the epilogue room that the number on the card is wrong and that they must have made a mistake in the coaching room.

I can discuss this with other coaches, but we can have the players look at the card to make sure they agree before they leave...his way we can avoid any conflicts....maybe even a spot on the card for the player in charge of party card to initial..saying they agree
this could top that from happening...just my 1.5 cents

Thanks, Jeff. That sounds fair to the community as a whole.

I would like to see coaches verify the total with the players in the coaching room. Sometimes the coach doesn't show the party card to the players until they leave and then they realize there was a mistake later on. It looks like I will be a coach at Origins. I will keep this in mind myself.

I am generally fine with the new guidelines, but I do see a few potential issues:

Jeff Martin wrote: 1) Attendees of a Con cannot enter the Coaching Area unless they are wearing a wristband for an event that is starting in the next 30 minutes. Attendees cannot enter a Coaching Room of a certain time unless they have the wristband for that given room. We reserve the right to ask to see the times printed on the wristbands, and we will remove anyone in violation.

This can make things messy if one person on the run has all the tickets and the other people haven't gotten them yet. In the past, a lot of the time the ticket holder is at the coaching area for their time slot, and the other people on the run (e.g. arranged through the forums but don't have their tickets yet) go get the ticket at the coaching area.

If that is no longer possible, will there be good meeting areas right outside the coaching area so this can be done?

2) The loaning of TEs is permissible, but it can only be done by someone who is in a given event slot. The loaner player must have the same time on their wristband as the loanee.

3) All players who wish to use TEs must present them to their Coach for authentication. The TEs must be placed on the table in front of the player, and they must not be contained within any kind of enclosure. Once the Coach has verified their TE tokens, their total of earned Treasure Chips will be recorded on the Party Card.

When in the process is the TE check done? Beginning? End? What happens with late arrivals? What happens to people who want to go to the bathroom at the end of the coaching session?

I still think that it might be better to do the check right at the end of training, before they head to the dungeon.

In addition, even under this new system, TE's can still be used on multiple runs if you are willing to give up 1 ticket. For example, under the rules, one player can wear wristbands for 12 PM, 12:12 PM, 12:24 PM, 12:36 PM, and 12:48 PM. They are able to have access to each of those areas and use their 10 CoA's. Obviously, they won't be able to go on all the runs so most of them will be 1 person short. But this is theoretically possible and shows how TE's can be used in simultaneous runs.

5) Ghosting is allowed at Gen Con, but the maximum number of Ghost characters that can receive any TE bonus is set at five characters. All Ghost characters can equip TEs if they wish, but only five Ghost characters will receive any Treasure Chips. Thus, if one person buys out the slot of all 10 tickets, five of the ghost characters can have a number entered on the Treasure Draw area on the Party Card, but four will be left blank. The final 10th character’s TE bonus will, of course, be that of the actual single player. Another example is one with 5 actual players and 5 Ghost players. In this case, all 10 characters can have a number entered into the Treasure Draw area on the Party Card.

In addition, the above rules apply to the Participation tokens in the same fashion – so that up to five Ghost characters can receive their Participation tokens in the Epilogue Room.

Suppose there are 3 players, each with 4, 3, and 3 tickets. How do you determine who gets the 5 ghosts (out of the 7 potential extra tickets)?

6) Due to the lower event ticket cost and lower number of available tickets at non-Gen Con conventions, Ghosting is NOT allowed at non-Gen Con conventions. No Treasure Chips nor Participation tokens will be awarded to ANY Ghost characters. If you really want all the cool Treasure Chips and Participation tokens, find some newbies to go on runs with you and give them your tickets. Maybe they will hand over their earned Treasure Chips and Participation tokens as a thank you.

As a footnote: As TDC, Kirk was offering free tickets to our sealed run but there were absolutely no takers. The vast majority of people in the area were waiting for an upcoming run, so there weren't really random people that were able to take you up on your free ticket.


Another issue: It is not uncommon for someone to be running late (possibly because of their volunteering schedule or because their prior run ran long). If the player ends up joining his party in the training room (or even 1st room), can a player coach amend the party card?

For example, at TDC, the length of a run turned out to be much longer than expected due to the trolley ride and the epilogue room (no treasure coins so you had to do the pulls there). If you ended up being late to your next run because of this, how would your TE's be recorded?

Beertram wrote: Thanks, Jeff. That sounds fair to the community as a whole.

I would like to see coaches verify the total with the players in the coaching room. Sometimes the coach doesn't show the party card to the players until they leave and then they realize there was a mistake later on. It looks like I will be a coach at Origins. I will keep this in mind myself.

as I said in the previous post, maybe we can get a small confirmation line to get the party card holder to sign off on ...added to the party card

Thanks for listening to players and considering their feedback, Jeff. We appreciate it?

Sounds to me like pretty fair and sensible guidelines.

Eric mentioned a meeting area of some sort for people to get tickets from a the ticket holder. Makes sense - I know I have arrived at the coaching area to pick up my ticket from someone in the past.

Incognito wrote: ....

For example, at TDC, the length of a run turned out to be much longer than expected due to the trolley ride and the epilogue room (no treasure coins so you had to do the pulls there). If you ended up being late to your next run because of this, how would your TE's be recorded?

Due to the increased length at TDC, I am accounting for 24 minutes extra per run at Origins.

I see how these new rules restrict people walking through and farming out TEs. I don't see how it would stop someone from loaning TEs to a group, have that group show them to the coach, then return them to the loaner before entering the dungeon. It would require some trust from the loaner. Someone could still loan one set to multiple runs. I think #3 should indicate the TEs may be returned to a binder or whatever, but must accompany the party through the dungeon. Also, an AC should be able to request to see them at any time. (Not that they would, just stated that they might.)

But rule #1 does make finding a group leader harder. Especially if you are subbing in for another player at the last minute and you have no way of contacting the person that has the actual ticket for the run and they are already in the coaching area. In fact, I had this exact thing turn up at least twice last year. Once I had to track down Kirk to fill in for someone while he was going from the coaching area to the training room.

I'm not saying this shouldn't be done, but there should be awareness by TPTB that the majority of players will not know this ew rule at first and there will be a lot of confusion. Please add a sign that 'Players with wristbands* ONLY past this point. (*Events starting in the next 30 minutes)' or something like that.

Also, not that the coaches need more to do, but instead of just asking 'Is this everybody?' they should also ask 'Do they have their tickets and/or wristbands?' if not everyone is there. And point out that the players can't get into the coaching room without already having the wristbands if someone indicates they have the tickets and wristbands right here.