TOPIC: Unfortunate Token Predator News

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: One thing we need to change is how 2ndary tokens are bought.
Newbie" I pulled this CoA,what's it worth"
Vet " it's worth about 1200-1500$, I will offer you $800"
What we as vets need to say is the above with added line someone else might offer you more ...you can check around.

Totally agree. And those who are trustworthy will always mention that they might get better offers somewhere else. Getting that starting number followed with engaging the secondary token dealers and traders is how they will learn more about how niche the TD token is and who will treat you fairly.

Hawk Fingle wrote: It obviously was serious enough that those in charge felt it necessary to add to a coach's responsibilities.

This came directly from the coach of my last run on Friday night, and according to his words, he and the other coaches were directed by higher powers to make a group announcement to inform new players of the rarity scheme of tokens and give an approximate value for each rarity as a direct result of predators waiting for newbies to make their treasure pulls and then offering them an awful lowball of $10 or $15 for the higher tier tokens they pulled.

That is good enough evidence for me.

Allow me to play devil's advocate here.

What you have just described is a textbook case of hearsay, which makes it fairly weak evidence.

Someone related to you something that you were not a party to, that you then related to us.

How do you know the coach in question wasn't confused about the rationale for the instruction to describe rarity and values, or that you or them didn't experience some kind of miscommunication?

In any case, it would have been nice if you included the provenance of this information rather than relating information about a situation you didn't witness yourself without any explanation for how you came to know this.



As far as the advice, we now probably have a bunch of newbies running around thinking someone is ripping them off if they offer less than $15 for any non-aragonite trade item, a 1000 GP bar, a monster bit, Potion Distilled Healing, and the blue backed Cloaks and Belts from this year. So... that's bad.

But! To any player who got ripped off, PM me and I'll see what I can do to restore your faith in the TD community.

While I'm not directly aware of any douchenozzle practices occurring at Origins, I can confirm that quite a bit of time was spent in the coaching room on Saturday explaining the value of various tokens to newbies. The coach went so far as to bring in examples of each of the colors and how they help identify potential value. They talked about range of value and how if you're trying to sell to some of the TD stores you'd have to expect to get a little less as they need to make some profit. It was pretty thorough and accurate. It's hard to imagine in a busy coaching room that they would take that much time to explain something if not directed to do so.

Hawk Fingle wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I feel this sort of abstract, "something nefarious happened" without specifics may do more harm than good.

Much like after TDC many people stated that "they heard" that people were loaning out Charm of Avarice, without any first hand evidence.


Who observed these unfair traders?

What unfair trades were proffered?

Is it possible that people are misinterpreting a volunteer instruction to train new players about token rarity into evidence that something nefarious occurred? When that instruction could have come about for a variety of other reasons?


As much as I've seen people grousing about negative TD experiences, I've also run across a fair amount of grousing from people who have very over inflated ideas about the value of various tokens, and I would hate a new player to come here, read this, and think "AW MAN! I GOT RIPPED OFF! I KNEW IT!" or "TD is full of cheats and jerks." unless there is some evidence that this happened.

It obviously was serious enough that those in charge felt it necessary to add to a coach's responsibilities.

This came directly from the coach of my last run on Friday night, and according to his words, he and the other coaches were directed by higher powers to make a group announcement to inform new players of the rarity scheme of tokens and give an approximate value for each rarity as a direct result of predators waiting for newbies to make their treasure pulls and then offering them an awful lowball of $10 or $15 for the higher tier tokens they pulled.

That is good enough evidence for me.

I'm curious, what approximate value did the coach give for each rarity? That's a tricky thing to do, since the range of values is pretty large. I do like the general idea though of giving players some idea of value, as most new players would probably be astonished at how much tokens could be worth.

I will concur with the thoughts expressed here and will add that the coaches were given new instructions for each run to share the approximate value range of tokens.

I will also say I was on hand all day on Thursday (had no runs) and I did not personally witness the fore mentioned act. I told anyone asking me a value of a token the following advice:

"If ANYONE offers you $10 or more for a token, then always get a second opinion. Preferrably from a veteran or knowledable trader." It is unlikely to unrelated people will both be jags.

I did see two Oranges pulled and I personally talked to both of them making sure they knew it was worth at the high end $1,500.

I am not discounting it is happening so I thank Hawk for posting about it and as a community we should all be on the lookout for bad behavior like this.

Ed

Hawk,
I think I was the coach. It happened last year at gen con.
I didn't know the buyer or seller. But what happened was a newbie had pulled a legendary.
Then someone I had not seen before ( plus I am bad with names and faces, if people can't tell by my puzzled look when the approach me). The vet( I had to assume) offered the newbie $100 for a legendary he had pulled. The newbie was going to take it.
I stepped in and said that that token was worth over 1k and he could get a lot more else where. The buyer was pissed at me by the look on his face. If you know me, I could care less.
So after that. I started putting into my coaches speech a rough( I mean very rough) approximate value for tokens. I do not want it to become a price guide or anything like
That.


I told druegar about it. He asked me to write up what I say. Then we are trying to add it to the coaches ( if they have time...lots to do in there). Or maybe the assistant coaches could do that in the room.

For the record. I didn't ask. I took it upon myself to add it to the coaching room first.
I don't know if it will happen but I am trying

I also passed it on to the true dungeon 101 group for the newbies.

I am all for educating newbies on token values, but the details are tricky. Just because most Legendaries are worth over $1k doesn't mean an offer of under $1k is a bad one. For example, at GenCon a vet that we all know and love pulled a legendary armor and I paid $800 or $900 for it. He was fully aware of the value, but he wanted the easy cash option, versus hoping to eventually sell it on eBay.

Kirk Bauer wrote: I am all for educating newbies on token values, but the details are tricky. Just because most Legendaries are worth over $1k doesn't mean an offer of under $1k is a bad one. For example, at GenCon a vet that we all know and love pulled a legendary armor and I paid $800 or $900 for it. He was fully aware of the value, but he wanted the easy cash option, versus hoping to eventually sell it on eBay.

That is what I said in my first post of this thread. As long as the seller is aware of other options, then it is the seller's choice.

Kirk Bauer wrote: I am all for educating newbies on token values, but the details are tricky. Just because most Legendaries are worth over $1k doesn't mean an offer of under $1k is a bad one. For example, at GenCon a vet that we all know and love pulled a legendary armor and I paid $800 or $900 for it. He was fully aware of the value, but he wanted the easy cash option, versus hoping to eventually sell it on eBay.

The whole money in hand thing.

By the time you are done with eBay and PayPal fees, you aren't realizing "full value" anyway.

One question I get a lot in coaching is what gold and monster trophies do. That's one area where I have always tried to give a range of value.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: Hawk,
I think I was the coach. It happened last year at gen con.
I didn't know the buyer or seller. But what happened was a newbie had pulled a legendary.
Then someone I had not seen before ( plus I am bad with names and faces, if people can't tell by my puzzled look when the approach me). The vet( I had to assume) offered the newbie $100 for a legendary he had pulled. The newbie was going to take it.
I stepped in and said that that token was worth over 1k and he could get a lot more else where. The buyer was pissed at me by the look on his face. If you know me, I could care less.
So after that. I started putting into my coaches speech a rough( I mean very rough) approximate value for tokens. I do not want it to become a price guide or anything like
That.


I told druegar about it. He asked me to write up what I say. Then we are trying to add it to the coaches ( if they have time...lots to do in there). Or maybe the assistant coaches could do that in the room.

For the record. I didn't ask. I took it upon myself to add it to the coaching room first.
I don't know if it will happen but I am trying

I also passed it on to the true dungeon 101 group for the newbies.

It wasn't you, Laz. This was a different coach, and there were no similar announcements made for any of the runs prior to that last run on Friday. This coach said that the announcement was due to new players being ripped off at Origins and TPTB gave new instructions to coaches to make the announcement ahead of time going forward.

Good on you for speaking up and ruining that predator's attempt. That sort of thing makes me so mad so fast.