TOPIC: Volunteers don't play TD?

Chris Von Wahlde wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote: It does surprise me how many volunteers (conjecture based on just random conversations over few year) can't or don't play. Scheduling is a pain first and foremost. I was glad to get the runs i did but I only volunteer part time, i'm both thankful and feel sorry for those that vol full time and try to play. I ended up selling a extra ticket i had to a multiyear volunteer who 'couldn't find slots that worked with times' and she played for 1st time with my group.

There is no easy solution but i'm up for anything that can be done. As i tell people I love volunteering and will gladly do it again it is a time investment out of vacation/con time.

Shout out to DDA- Wynne/Candace (i'll pronounce your name correctly 1st time one of these years...) who had a greedy sealed run and gave/sold half the slots to volunteers on Sun morn.

For many volunteers it's not even a lack of opportunity or money. Many simply aren't interested in playing.

I think that is a major problem.

Personally, I think it is past time to do some volunteer cleaning house. Much as I think volunteers should be commended for their contributions, a lot of volunteers really aren't very good at their roles and may in fact be liabilities from a PR standpoint (particularly abusive DM's who lack customer service skills and/or don't understand the game and/or tokens).

I definitely agree to a point. I myself have gotten frustrated with the amount of DMs that seem to be there only to kill the parties. During the opening of training I heard 3 talking about how many parties they have killed and they were shooting for way more this year. That is definitely the wrong attitude to have. In my opinion we are there to help the players enjoy their time in the Dungeon and make them want to come back. There is definitely a difference between a room being difficult (which is fun), and DMs actively trying for TPKs (this needs to stop).

While dm trying fairly to kill nightmare tokenholics is a fine and time honored tradition Dms main job for all other parties is for them to have fun.

Chip Bowles wrote:

Chris Von Wahlde wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote: It does surprise me how many volunteers (conjecture based on just random conversations over few year) can't or don't play. Scheduling is a pain first and foremost. I was glad to get the runs i did but I only volunteer part time, i'm both thankful and feel sorry for those that vol full time and try to play. I ended up selling a extra ticket i had to a multiyear volunteer who 'couldn't find slots that worked with times' and she played for 1st time with my group.

There is no easy solution but i'm up for anything that can be done. As i tell people I love volunteering and will gladly do it again it is a time investment out of vacation/con time.

Shout out to DDA- Wynne/Candace (i'll pronounce your name correctly 1st time one of these years...) who had a greedy sealed run and gave/sold half the slots to volunteers on Sun morn.

For many volunteers it's not even a lack of opportunity or money. Many simply aren't interested in playing.

I think that is a major problem.

Personally, I think it is past time to do some volunteer cleaning house. Much as I think volunteers should be commended for their contributions, a lot of volunteers really aren't very good at their roles and may in fact be liabilities from a PR standpoint (particularly abusive DM's who lack customer service skills and/or don't understand the game and/or tokens).

I definitely agree to a point. I myself have gotten frustrated with the amount of DMs that seem to be there only to kill the parties. During the opening of training I heard 3 talking about how many parties they have killed and they were shooting for way more this year. That is definitely the wrong attitude to have. In my opinion we are there to help the players enjoy their time in the Dungeon and make them want to come back. There is definitely a difference between a room being difficult (which is fun), and DMs actively trying for TPKs (this needs to stop).

While dm trying fairly to kill nightmare tokenholics is a fine and time honored tradition Dms main job for all other parties is for them to have fun.

When I DMed D&D I had the following goals:

Tell a good strory
Everyone has fun
Occasionally scare the crap out of the party. (Which I think is better than a TPK any day)

Harlax wrote:

Chip Bowles wrote:

Chris Von Wahlde wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote: It does surprise me how many volunteers (conjecture based on just random conversations over few year) can't or don't play. Scheduling is a pain first and foremost. I was glad to get the runs i did but I only volunteer part time, i'm both thankful and feel sorry for those that vol full time and try to play. I ended up selling a extra ticket i had to a multiyear volunteer who 'couldn't find slots that worked with times' and she played for 1st time with my group.

There is no easy solution but i'm up for anything that can be done. As i tell people I love volunteering and will gladly do it again it is a time investment out of vacation/con time.

Shout out to DDA- Wynne/Candace (i'll pronounce your name correctly 1st time one of these years...) who had a greedy sealed run and gave/sold half the slots to volunteers on Sun morn.

For many volunteers it's not even a lack of opportunity or money. Many simply aren't interested in playing.

I think that is a major problem.

Personally, I think it is past time to do some volunteer cleaning house. Much as I think volunteers should be commended for their contributions, a lot of volunteers really aren't very good at their roles and may in fact be liabilities from a PR standpoint (particularly abusive DM's who lack customer service skills and/or don't understand the game and/or tokens).

I definitely agree to a point. I myself have gotten frustrated with the amount of DMs that seem to be there only to kill the parties. During the opening of training I heard 3 talking about how many parties they have killed and they were shooting for way more this year. That is definitely the wrong attitude to have. In my opinion we are there to help the players enjoy their time in the Dungeon and make them want to come back. There is definitely a difference between a room being difficult (which is fun), and DMs actively trying for TPKs (this needs to stop).

While dm trying fairly to kill nightmare tokenholics is a fine and time honored tradition Dms main job for all other parties is for them to have fun.

When I DMed D&D I had the following goals:

Tell a good strory
Everyone has fun
Occasionally scare the crap out of the party. (Which I think is better than a TPK any day)

I totally agree.

Chip Bowles wrote:

Chris Von Wahlde wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote: It does surprise me how many volunteers (conjecture based on just random conversations over few year) can't or don't play. Scheduling is a pain first and foremost. I was glad to get the runs i did but I only volunteer part time, i'm both thankful and feel sorry for those that vol full time and try to play. I ended up selling a extra ticket i had to a multiyear volunteer who 'couldn't find slots that worked with times' and she played for 1st time with my group.

There is no easy solution but i'm up for anything that can be done. As i tell people I love volunteering and will gladly do it again it is a time investment out of vacation/con time.

Shout out to DDA- Wynne/Candace (i'll pronounce your name correctly 1st time one of these years...) who had a greedy sealed run and gave/sold half the slots to volunteers on Sun morn.

For many volunteers it's not even a lack of opportunity or money. Many simply aren't interested in playing.

I think that is a major problem.

Personally, I think it is past time to do some volunteer cleaning house. Much as I think volunteers should be commended for their contributions, a lot of volunteers really aren't very good at their roles and may in fact be liabilities from a PR standpoint (particularly abusive DM's who lack customer service skills and/or don't understand the game and/or tokens).

I definitely agree to a point. I myself have gotten frustrated with the amount of DMs that seem to be there only to kill the parties. During the opening of training I heard 3 talking about how many parties they have killed and they were shooting for way more this year. That is definitely the wrong attitude to have. In my opinion we are there to help the players enjoy their time in the Dungeon and make them want to come back. There is definitely a difference between a room being difficult (which is fun), and DMs actively trying for TPKs (this needs to stop).

While dm trying fairly to kill nightmare tokenholics is a fine and time honored tradition Dms main job for all other parties is for them to have fun.

Sadly... what is to keep this from crossing over to all groups. Or whose to say all the people in the group are tokenaholics? If you just have one or two people in the group that aren't then you may be keeping them from enjoying themselves and from coming back. I don't want to keep stating it, but it is a bad attitude to have.

We had two friends run with us. We happened into one of these DMs rooms and ended with a TPK... that room left such a bad taste in their mouth that they won't come back. It could be what you say and they were making it harder for the tokenaholics, but in turn we lost 2 potential players.

Druegar,
Do you think it would be possible to hold back some runs at the non-GenCon events?

George

Hi my son, lotus Blossum, and I have had only one bad killer dm. We often run with pick ups to help them and see their fun. 2 years ago when we got into a combat room the dm gleefully asked the Newby for the card only scanned the card said fresh meat. He then said we were surprised (my son and I cannot be surprised ) and attacked with a 10 point attack on the bard rolling a 20 and assessing double damage. As I was trying to mention this could not happen he went for inative again while the newbies were gathering their wits. He won again and before the paladin could say he was guarding the bard killed her. He then proclaimed without her plus 2 the entire party needed 18-20 to hit.

At this point the party was taken aback. they knew charles and I were higher level and had plated alot and asked if this was normal. We assured them no and I had another player give her a death door potion and playing a druid fully healed her. The dm looked shocked and asked how a newbie could do this. ( showed him my stats an bag of dds)My son then said, watch this and on a critical with his great club of bashing did 84 of the monsters hps .

Long story short we let the newbies kill it raised another party member and commented with a few years practice the might be a challenge on nonleathel He didn't like that

I have no idea how other cons deal with their ticket allocations.

Ideally I think it's best if rooms are run for A) Fun and Consistency. While many of those involved in running the game may be volunteers, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that players are *paying customers*. There's already a number of degrees in difficulty that the group can choose for playing at a level they're happy with. If they want to go for a brutal battle, that's their prerogative. Similarly, if a group decked out in the hottest gear wants to trounce a cake walk difficulty because they're tired/want to show off/whatever, that's also their choice.

I'm not comfortable with DM's changing the difficulty on a whim, as it were.

Choosing attack players that seem better equipped than others would be one thing. Intentionally aiming to kill players, let alone newbies as Chip describes, sounds like something else. Sure, if they were running at the top difficulty for the challenge it'd be a bit more reasonable, but 'fresh meat' followed by 15+ points of damage?

Whenever I DM/GM/whatever am R{G, my goal is for the group to have fun and be challenged. Yes, sometimes that means fudging a mechanic somewhat, or changing plans slightly, but intentionally killing off a weaker target just because they can, and potentially leading to that player sitting out the remainder of the room/dungeon (barring someone with the healing gear on hand to pick them up/dust them off, and the willingness to use it) seems mean spirited, and outright counterproductive in terms of currying a player base.

For the record, my group lost the Puzzle run we went on last year, but I had fun and would totally return. If a DM had picked me out and just murdered me outright, I can't say I'd be quite as eager to spend that kind of money to sit out and watch other people have fun (potentially, my usual group certainly isn't packing the hottest tokens and resurrections to spare).

Forar wrote: Ideally I think it's best if rooms are run for A) Fun and Consistency. While many of those involved in running the game may be volunteers, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that players are *paying customers*. There's already a number of degrees in difficulty that the group can choose for playing at a level they're happy with. If they want to go for a brutal battle, that's their prerogative. Similarly, if a group decked out in the hottest gear wants to trounce a cake walk difficulty because they're tired/want to show off/whatever, that's also their choice.

I'm not comfortable with DM's changing the difficulty on a whim, as it were.

Choosing attack players that seem better equipped than others would be one thing. Intentionally aiming to kill players, let alone newbies as Chip describes, sounds like something else. Sure, if they were running at the top difficulty for the challenge it'd be a bit more reasonable, but 'fresh meat' followed by 15+ points of damage?

Whenever I DM/GM/whatever am R{G, my goal is for the group to have fun and be challenged. Yes, sometimes that means fudging a mechanic somewhat, or changing plans slightly, but intentionally killing off a weaker target just because they can, and potentially leading to that player sitting out the remainder of the room/dungeon (barring someone with the healing gear on hand to pick them up/dust them off, and the willingness to use it) seems mean spirited, and outright counterproductive in terms of currying a player base.

For the record, my group lost the Puzzle run we went on last year, but I had fun and would totally return. If a DM had picked me out and just murdered me outright, I can't say I'd be quite as eager to spend that kind of money to sit out and watch other people have fun (potentially, my usual group certainly isn't packing the hottest tokens and resurrections to spare).

I agree but let me stress Over the several years and likely over 75 runs I have gone on this is the only Killer dm I have ever encountered (other than DMs I know on Nightmare where trying to kill anyone on those parties is very reasonable) Doing this for new people no way period

Chip Bowles wrote:

Forar wrote: Ideally I think it's best if rooms are run for A) Fun and Consistency. While many of those involved in running the game may be volunteers, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that players are *paying customers*. There's already a number of degrees in difficulty that the group can choose for playing at a level they're happy with. If they want to go for a brutal battle, that's their prerogative. Similarly, if a group decked out in the hottest gear wants to trounce a cake walk difficulty because they're tired/want to show off/whatever, that's also their choice.

I'm not comfortable with DM's changing the difficulty on a whim, as it were.

Choosing attack players that seem better equipped than others would be one thing. Intentionally aiming to kill players, let alone newbies as Chip describes, sounds like something else. Sure, if they were running at the top difficulty for the challenge it'd be a bit more reasonable, but 'fresh meat' followed by 15+ points of damage?

Whenever I DM/GM/whatever am R{G, my goal is for the group to have fun and be challenged. Yes, sometimes that means fudging a mechanic somewhat, or changing plans slightly, but intentionally killing off a weaker target just because they can, and potentially leading to that player sitting out the remainder of the room/dungeon (barring someone with the healing gear on hand to pick them up/dust them off, and the willingness to use it) seems mean spirited, and outright counterproductive in terms of currying a player base.

For the record, my group lost the Puzzle run we went on last year, but I had fun and would totally return. If a DM had picked me out and just murdered me outright, I can't say I'd be quite as eager to spend that kind of money to sit out and watch other people have fun (potentially, my usual group certainly isn't packing the hottest tokens and resurrections to spare).

I agree but let me stress Over the several years and likely over 75 runs I have gone on this is the only Killer dm I have ever encountered (other than DMs I know on Nightmare where trying to kill anyone on those parties is very reasonable) Doing this for new people no way period

There is no reasonable reason for a DM trying to kill a player, I don't care what level they are playing. The monsters and puzzle damage is already figured in for that. Whether they are non lethal or nightmare they are there to have fun not fight the DM. Just run the module and we will have a more consistent dungeon and people will have more fun. Again not everybody in these groups are veterans and you may be ruining it for them.


I will say that there are far more good DMs than bad, but there is no reason for the bad. It can be easily fixed. I have run into 2 or 3 killer DMs and have had the problem with one on multiple runs. It's just frustrating.

As a player, I've never run into one of these killer DMs. Obviously some are better than others, but I haven't encountered any out to get players.

As a DM, I was not a killer DM.

As an AC, I haven't witnessed any of my DMs acting like this, and no one has reported concerns like this to me. I hope players will if it happens.

bpsymington wrote: As a player, I've never run into one of these killer DMs. Obviously some are better than others, but I haven't encountered any out to get players.

As a DM, I was not a killer DM.

As an AC, I haven't witnessed any of my DMs acting like this, and no one has reported concerns like this to me. I hope players will if it happens.

Agreed - 100%