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TOPIC: DM Token Training Suggestions

DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #1

We had a couple of instances in True Dungeon this year where the DMs and AC didn't fully understand how some tokens worked. Since these seem to me to be fairly common situations, I thought I'd mention them in case they can be highlighted in training for next year. I want to be clear that I'm not blaming the DM's, as they have thousands of tokens to try to learn, as well as other specifics for their rooms.

First, a DM in one room didn't think that Bracers of Supreme Archery and Sniper Spectacles gave a bonus to Wizards doing combat slides (and I agree the wording on them wouldn't lead you to believe they would). The DM called the AC in (which I think is the first time that's ever happened on a Dungeon run I've been on), and the AC didn't think that they did either. They were very nice about it, and I think in the end they gave us the bonus anyway, but it did take a few minutes away from our combat time. I verified when I got back home on TokenDB that they do provide that bonus. It would be great if that might be highlighted to DMs.

The second instance was a combat room, when our group had taken some damage. On a couple of occasions the Cleric cast a healing spell, and I mentioned that the Cleric got +13 to Heal (which was listed on the party card) and then got to double it (and the Lenses of Divine Sight were also listed on the party card, I'd asked the Coach to write them in). The DM on both occasions gave me a look like he thought I was cheating, and said "It's between you and your God". I tried to show him on the party card where we were getting the bonuses, but he didn't buy it.

I want to emphasize again that all the DM's did a great job, including these DM's. These are just a couple of spell rulings that perhaps could be emphasized next year.

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #2

Why did you even mention it? We manage our own HP.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #3

Mike Steele wrote: First, a DM in one room didn't think that Bracers of Supreme Archery and Sniper Spectacles gave a bonus to Wizards doing combat slides (and I agree the wording on them wouldn't lead you to believe they would). The DM called the AC in (which I think is the first time that's ever happened on a Dungeon run I've been on), and the AC didn't think that they did either.


How did this even come up - aren't those bonuses baked into the ranged to-hit bonus that is used for calculating spell slides on the party card?

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #4

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: First, a DM in one room didn't think that Bracers of Supreme Archery and Sniper Spectacles gave a bonus to Wizards doing combat slides (and I agree the wording on them wouldn't lead you to believe they would). The DM called the AC in (which I think is the first time that's ever happened on a Dungeon run I've been on), and the AC didn't think that they did either.


How did this even come up - aren't those bonuses baked into the ranged to-hit bonus that is used for calculating spell slides on the party card?


I think that they are, but the DM wasn't giving our Wizards any bonus to hit. I think the DM and AC thought that the Ranged AC bonus was only applicable to ranged attacks and not spell slides.

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #5

Harlax wrote: Why did you even mention it? We manage our own HP.


I was saying it out loud for the benefit of our Cleric (who is having vision problems) and the party members getting healed.

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #6

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: Why did you even mention it? We manage our own HP.


I was saying it out loud for the benefit of our Cleric (who is having vision problems) and the party members getting healed.

. In that case just tell the DM that you are pretty sure Pelor is cool with it.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #7

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Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: Why did you even mention it? We manage our own HP.


I was saying it out loud for the benefit of our Cleric (who is having vision problems) and the party members getting healed.

. In that case just tell the DM that you are pretty sure Pelor is cool with it.



I like 'Pelor and I are tight like that.'
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #8

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: First, a DM in one room didn't think that Bracers of Supreme Archery and Sniper Spectacles gave a bonus to Wizards doing combat slides (and I agree the wording on them wouldn't lead you to believe they would). The DM called the AC in (which I think is the first time that's ever happened on a Dungeon run I've been on), and the AC didn't think that they did either.


How did this even come up - aren't those bonuses baked into the ranged to-hit bonus that is used for calculating spell slides on the party card?


I think that they are, but the DM wasn't giving our Wizards any bonus to hit. I think the DM and AC thought that the Ranged AC bonus was only applicable to ranged attacks and not spell slides.


Well, apparently there was a recent hidden rule change regarding how Bardsong affects sliding spells. So I'd totally understand if your DM was a bit confused.... :huh:

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #9

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: First, a DM in one room didn't think that Bracers of Supreme Archery and Sniper Spectacles gave a bonus to Wizards doing combat slides (and I agree the wording on them wouldn't lead you to believe they would). The DM called the AC in (which I think is the first time that's ever happened on a Dungeon run I've been on), and the AC didn't think that they did either.


How did this even come up - aren't those bonuses baked into the ranged to-hit bonus that is used for calculating spell slides on the party card?


I think that they are, but the DM wasn't giving our Wizards any bonus to hit. I think the DM and AC thought that the Ranged AC bonus was only applicable to ranged attacks and not spell slides.


Well, apparently there was a recent hidden rule change regarding how Bardsong affects sliding spells. So I'd totally understand if your DM was a bit confused.... :huh:


What is that recent hidden rule change?

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #10

Mike Steele wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: First, a DM in one room didn't think that Bracers of Supreme Archery and Sniper Spectacles gave a bonus to Wizards doing combat slides (and I agree the wording on them wouldn't lead you to believe they would). The DM called the AC in (which I think is the first time that's ever happened on a Dungeon run I've been on), and the AC didn't think that they did either.


How did this even come up - aren't those bonuses baked into the ranged to-hit bonus that is used for calculating spell slides on the party card?


I think that they are, but the DM wasn't giving our Wizards any bonus to hit. I think the DM and AC thought that the Ranged AC bonus was only applicable to ranged attacks and not spell slides.


Well, apparently there was a recent hidden rule change regarding how Bardsong affects sliding spells. So I'd totally understand if your DM was a bit confused.... :huh:


What is that recent hidden rule change?


A long time ago, Bardsong didn't add any bonuses (+hit or damage) to sliding spells

Then there was a change to the definition of ranged, so that Bardsong added +hit to sliding spells. This was also the rule change that allowed Dexterity +hit to add to sliding spells, which basically made most sliding spells ridiculously easy to hit with.

This year, apparently, there was a change so that Bardsong adds +hit AND +damage to sliding spells, even without an Earcuff of Inspiration! The issue came up on the DM Quiz and was briefly discussed in the Volunteer forum, though there wasn't much in the way of an official resolution.

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #11

Another subtle change is that Wands (but not scrolls or things like the Horn of Blasting) require hands to use.

Presumably, this means you might need to use a Free Action to switch from/to a Wand. (Still awaiting official confirmation on that).

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DM Token Training Suggestions 5 years 10 months ago #12

You could throw in the two hands free to cast a spell ruling.

I can't recall a DM asking about that on any of my runs.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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