TOPIC: Party saves

Well ya, that works.

Now the only concern would be do you think the dm would waste to lich time looking back and forth between the pillbox and the party card to adjudicate that saves vs the current look at the big dice once, scan down the card approach. Minor concern but we do live in a world that skips 30 second skill tests to save time.

Druegar wrote:

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I rolled a 7, honest. I actually checked all of my token inventory and the only think I had that could have improved it was a scarab that needed to be declared ahead of time.

Cary Kelly wrote: I can see how one single bad roll can have a bad effect on the entire party having been involved in that on the FFL run of N1. The Ogre Mage cast sleep - and one bad roll from our fearless leader resulted in the entire party failing - which would have meant TPK in room 3 (had it not been for one incredibly lucky roll where our Elf Wizard was the first one "killed").

That could leave a very bad taste in the mouths of some players.

However the time constraint of 10 rolls is too much.

The one compromise might be to divide the character card in slots like with the beholder - 2 or 3 slots of 4 or 6 classes. Two quick rolls (1-6 on card get result one and 7-12 get result 2) could guard against a single bad dice roll dooming everybody.

As a combat DM:

The most efficient way I can think of to use a save stick would be to put the party card on the combat board, then put the save stick vertically across the card, next to the save column. That way, I can just run down the card and have both the save bonus and the appropriate die right next to each other.

As far as increased math goes, I would have to do nine extra additions for each save, but I don't have to keep a running total like I do for damage. For me personally, I'd estimate about a five-second increase in time required.

As an engineer:

A standard-size d20 is about 1 inch in diameter. Each compartment needs enough room for the die to roll around in, so call it 1.5 inches. Twelve classes then gives you a stick about 18 inches long. The party card is 8.5 inches tall and has some margin around it, so call it a bit more than 0.5 inches per character line. Maybe a 4x3 grid instead of one line is worth considering?

I'm also slightly concerned about readability. Smaller dice mean smaller numbers, and while the new backstop lights are a big improvement on the overheads, they're low enough that a 1.5 inch wall on the save stick would cast a fairly big shadow.

Andrew Knoll wrote: As a combat DM:

The most efficient way I can think of to use a save stick would be to put the party card on the combat board, then put the save stick vertically across the card, next to the save column. That way, I can just run down the card and have both the save bonus and the appropriate die right next to each other.

As far as increased math goes, I would have to do nine extra additions for each save, but I don't have to keep a running total like I do for damage. For me personally, I'd estimate about a five-second increase in time required.

As an engineer:

A standard-size d20 is about 1 inch in diameter. Each compartment needs enough room for the die to roll around in, so call it 1.5 inches. Twelve classes then gives you a stick about 18 inches long. The party card is 8.5 inches tall and has some margin around it, so call it a bit more than 0.5 inches per character line. Maybe a 4x3 grid instead of one line is worth considering?

I'm also slightly concerned about readability. Smaller dice mean smaller numbers, and while the new backstop lights are a big improvement on the overheads, they're low enough that a 1.5 inch wall on the save stick would cast a fairly big shadow.

What if you had a 2x6 with a slot in the middle that you align over the save you want and then as you go down the list you alternate from right to left and back. it would be 9 inches long that way and could maybe shave down just a bit to make it line up so that the top two boxes would be as wide as 2 different classes saves boxes.

FiannaTiger wrote:

Andrew Knoll wrote: Maybe a 4x3 grid instead of one line is worth considering?

What if you had a 2x6 with a slot in the middle that you align over the save you want and then as you go down the list you alternate from right to left and back. it would be 9 inches long that way and could maybe shave down just a bit to make it line up so that the top two boxes would be as wide as 2 different classes saves boxes.

That could work too. I'd check to get a more exact measurement of the party card before building one, though.


On a related note, weren't party cards larger than 8.5x14 in years past?

What about the save stick idea, but to each class role, put the applicable save bonuses on the box?

Make it the party card/party leader responsibility to carry the card/box with them.

That way, room DMs wouldn’t have to track back and forth, but look at the roll and add the applicable number?

Much like in the beginning of the thread, i think this is the best option. Write it on the acrylic top of the save stick, and it will be just like one of those "100 addition problems in 5 minutes" quizzes from back in teh day. Just look down the line and there you go.

That said, the party card and the save stick could be combined into a Clipboard of sorts. This helps the DM further by not having to hunch over the sliding table to write.

I posted something in the gencon 2018 forum, a suggestion to give human fighters an ability to allow a re-roll for a failed save. Not only would it make a more compelling choice between them and the dwarf, but it might address this issue somewhat.

I personally prefer the one save for the party option we are currently using. I think in the end the time saved on roles and math is worth keeping the current system, it’s not perfect but is a imperfection I’m willing to stay with.

As is if the party needs a 18 save and the roll is 14 them all you need to do is look for PCs with less than a +4 on the save.

I have played on runs where it was clear to me the GM was not fast at math, so anything that slows them down is a issue.

Cary Kelly wrote: I can see how one single bad roll can have a bad effect on the entire party having been involved in that on the FFL run of N1. The Ogre Mage cast sleep - and one bad roll from our fearless leader resulted in the entire party failing - which would have meant TPK in room 3 (had it not been for one incredibly lucky roll where our Elf Wizard was the first one "killed").

That could leave a very bad taste in the mouths of some players.

However the time constraint of 10 rolls is too much.

The one compromise might be to divide the character card in slots like with the beholder - 2 or 3 slots of 4 or 6 classes. Two quick rolls (1-6 on card get result one and 7-12 get result 2) could guard against a single bad dice roll dooming everybody.

As the Elf Wizard in question, it did suck for the entire party to fail a save versus sleep because our leader rolled a 2 or 3 (nightmare level so the save was in the 20s). The GM declared the ogre magi jumps down and kills us all one by one in our sleep. I asked him to determine who was killed in what order and we “lucked” into my character being killed first. Ash’s death pouch later, I’m up and blow the horn of the minotaur waking the rest of the party. The ogre killed me again immediately. I seem to remember dying three times in that room due to a bad roll but we all ended up surviving into the next room. It probably shouldn’t have required that odd combination to avoid a TPK 30 seconds into a room.

My suggestion is we have all players, in the prep room, roll 5-10 d20 rolls each and those are recorded onto the party card. When we use our tokens for re-rolls, etc that would happen in the room as needed. Seems pretty simple and quick.