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TOPIC: Feedback on Rules Clarification

Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #1

The recent work on the PHB made us realize we needed to clarify things regarding how non-equipment is used. Please give me your feedback on the info below. Thanks!

Anything that's not equipped in a slot ("slotless" is not a slot) requires a Free Action to "ready" and a Standard Action to use--unless you have an item that allows you to bypass this rule (see below). Therefore, something like a potion, scroll, oil, wand, etc. requires a Free Action to "ready" and a Standard Action to use.

Items like Pouch of Tulz, Lenses of Sage Speed, Shield of the Scholar, etc. that used to let you retrieve and use an item as a Free Action now will be said to let you retrieve and use the item as an Instantaneous Action. For example, if you have a Pouch of Tulz, you could:
  • Drink two potions in one round (The first retrieval & use is instantaneous and the second uses both your Free and Standard actions for the round.)
  • Retrieve & apply an oil, swap weapons, and make an attack
If you have Shield of the Scholar equipped you could:
  • Cast two scrolls in one round (The first retrieval & use is instantaneous and the second uses both your Free and Standard actions for the round.)
  • Retrieve & cast a scroll, swap wands, and cast the wand
  • Retrieve & cast a scroll, cast a spell from your character card, and still have a Free Action available
NOTE: To keep things simple, Free Actions used to "ready" an item must occur in the same round as the Standard Action that will be used to "use" the item. Someone could NOT use a Free Action to retrieve a thing on one round and use it on the next round?

Q: E.g., I just made a melee attack and have a Free Action available. Could I get a healing potion with this Free Action this round and then drink the potion on the next round as my Standard Action -- and then use my left-over Free Action to ready something else for next round?

A: No.


Other clarification for Rangers:


If a ranger chooses to engage in melee combat, the ranger MUST attack with two weapons. Coaches have lots of Common weapons available for ranger players who didn't pull a second viable weapon from their free pack. While in the adventure, if something happens to one of the ranger's weapons and the player doesn't have access to a suitable replacement, the ranger may not engage in melee. In this case, the ranger would need to rely on ranged attacks, spells, buffing, or offering morale support to their party.
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Last edit: by Druegar. Reason: minor formatting clean-up

Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #2

I'm not familiar with which slotless items require use and which don't, so I'll avoid commenting on that.

But, I don't understand the ranger thing at all. Does the monk have to slide two pucks? Is the ranger overpowered because someone can choose to only slide one puck? Does it detract from everyone's experience when a ranger doesn't double slide?

I already think the ranger weapon choice is too limited. This just seems to be heavy-handed for no gain. The "skill test" of sliding twice is something that spellcasters buffing spells can just choose to fail, yet the ranger doesn't get that choice?

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Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #3

We will need to be more mindful of the mix of common weapons available to coaches. At gen con, there was a dearth of ranged weapons at least during my shifts. At GHC there were a fair number of non weapon/wand tokens in the trays.

I'm thinking that this year I'll use one of Eds magnetic armbands to carry some stock around with me while coaching.
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You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

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Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #4

Hi Jeff,

Is there a limit to how many instantaneous actions you can take in a turn? If you have multiple items that let you do something instantaneously, can you use them all in one turn?

Thanks
Mike

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Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #5

1. I’d suggest one instantaneous action per round

2. I’d suggest just gluing Cestus stickers in the Ranger pucks, to simulate punching the monster in the face, and avoid the stack-of-commons problem. And say Rangers must use at least one “real” weapon, unlike Monks who can use zero. Or make it a dagger.

2a. But I’m not sure why this rule is needed.

3a. In fact, you could put a sticker in EVERY puck, and reduce the number of coach headaches by one. But don’t give daggers to clerics. That would be wrong.
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Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.

Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #6

Jeff Martin wrote:


Anything that's not equipped in a slot ("slotless" is not a slot) requires a Free Action to "ready" and a Standard Action to use--unless you have an item that allows you to bypass this rule (see below).


I am very confused by this interaction with several tokens.

Arcane Scroll Tube is slotless so to pull a Scroll out of it requires it to be readied and then a standard action to pull out the Scroll to gain the bonus. Another Standard Action to Read the scroll?

Ammunition (arrows, bolts, bullets) are slotless do they require a free action to use in your weapon?

Ash’s Death Pouch & Druegar’s Death Die- are they not usable if you have used your standard action the round you die?

Dust that increases Spell damage (similar to Ammunition) does it require a free and standard action to use?

Drinking Horn of Bliss - Once per room, any non-healing potion consumed by the wearer heals the wearer 1 HP. So does using its ability require a separate action from the actual consuming of the potion since that is not what the token does? (Lotus Blossom Bowls as well)

Greater Mistletoe & Various Clerical Holy Symbols Don't use requires an action to get their bonuses correct? I would assume that stat affecting slotless tokens don't apply.

Kvothe’s Bloodless requires an action? Or again because it is strictly stat based it wouldn't apply?

Mithral Coin of Luck if you use to reroll a failed save you cannot use another action that round?

Tome of Recall- Would this be Lore check Action. Use Tome Action. Lore Check Again Action in the 3rd Round.

Some of these seem like they should be straight forward, but just want to double check. The Using of Tome of Recall if it requires its own action separate from the action to check again would make it unusable imo. I am hoping that the use of slotless consumables (arrows and dust) don't end up requiring an action to use.
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Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #7

Brad Mortensen wrote: 1. I’d suggest one instantaneous action per round

2. I’d suggest just gluing Cestus stickers in the Ranger pucks, to simulate punching the monster in the face, and avoid the stack-of-commons problem. And say Rangers must use at least one “real” weapon, unlike Monks who can use zero. Or make it a dagger.

2a. But I’m not sure why this rule is needed.

3a. In fact, you could put a sticker in EVERY puck, and reduce the number of coach headaches by one. But don’t give daggers to clerics. That would be wrong.


I like the idea of having common weapon stickers in the pucks in case someone doesn't have a weapon token. It reminds me of the pucks from 2003 and 2004.

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Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #8

I'm wondering the same thing as mike.

Can i use my shield of the scroll and my pouch of tulz and slide in combat in the first round?


As a side note, it might be easier to just remove the limit on free actions, most DMs forget even such a thing exists.
Sweet a combat room, we won't take damage!

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Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #9

valetutto wrote: remove the limit on free actions

For everybody playing along at home, Valetutto said the phrase, so take a drink. :P
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
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Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #10

Harlax wrote: We will need to be more mindful of the mix of common weapons available to coaches. At gen con, there was a dearth of ranged weapons at least during my shifts. At GHC there were a fair number of non weapon/wand tokens in the trays.

I'm thinking that this year I'll use one of Eds magnetic armbands to carry some stock around with me while coaching.


I just load up on thrown weapons so I can cover both in one shot. I explain the whole non returning bit as well but most don’t mind when I mention they also get their strength bonus. :)

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Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #11

Might have been easier if long ago the rule was "You can do two things on your turn". Standard action, free action, instantaneous action....I don't think most of the DM's I've seen keep track of any of it.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein

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Feedback on Rules Clarification 3 years 5 days ago #12

Jeff, before we continue wordsmithing the “instantaneous” rule, I think it would be helpful if we had examples of scenarios you’re trying to prevent that are allowed under the existing “free action” rules.
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Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.
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