TOPIC: Official Statement on Treasure Enhancers

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Ro-gan wrote: I've been following these insane threads since TDC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't counterfeit Tokens. The term "counterfeit" came up in a post describing CoA's being used simultaneously in multiple Runs at the same time.

There are counterfeit tokens. Or were, a couple (three?) years back. I have seen them. I have handled them. They feel (physically) different, but look quite similar (especially in low light.) To the best of my knowledge, True Dungeon staff acted very quickly once they became aware of the situation, and nipped it in the bud. I haven't seen any counterfeits since.

They were not counterfeit Treasure Enhancers (not the ones I saw). So perhaps the concern about Counterfeit TE's is not warranted.

But perhaps it is.

After all, if one person decided the financial incentive was sufficient to risk creating a counterfeit, then odds are good someone else will do the same - especially if they think they can get away with it.

This is distinct from the concern that people are using legitimate, non-counterfeit tokens, but using them in questionable ways: by lending them to multiple parties at once, or by renting them out to strangers when they aren't even going on the run themselves.

I understand TD's desire to create a process which addresses all of these concerns.

Raven wrote:

Ro-gan wrote: I've been following these insane threads since TDC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't counterfeit Tokens. The term "counterfeit" came up in a post describing CoA's being used simultaneously in multiple Runs at the same time.

There are counterfeit tokens. Or were, a couple (three?) years back. I have seen them. I have handled them. They feel (physically) different, but look quite similar (especially in low light.) To the best of my knowledge, True Dungeon staff acted very quickly once they became aware of the situation, and nipped it in the bud. I haven't seen any counterfeits since.

They were not counterfeit Treasure Enhancers (not the ones I saw). So perhaps the concern about Counterfeit TE's is not warranted.

But perhaps it is.

After all, if one person decided the financial incentive was sufficient to risk creating a counterfeit, then odds are good someone else will do the same - especially if they think they can get away with it.

This is distinct from the concern that people are using legitimate, non-counterfeit tokens, but using them in questionable ways: by lending them to multiple parties at once, or by renting them out to strangers when they aren't even going on the run themselves.

I understand TD's desire to create a process which addresses all of these concerns.

Sorry, Raven. My post was in reference to counterfeit Tokens at TDC only.

You are correct in your post. That is why we have different colored Token backs now.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Kim Lindgren wrote: If you cannot trust the volunteer in order to hand them the token to confirm it's legitimacy then there are much larger problems for all parties concerned. I mean are we getting to the point that we place such a financial value on tokens that a regular volunteer will no longer be able to man the treasure box because of trust issues between players and volunteers?

Unfortunately, it looks like we are headed in that direction.

We have multiple players who are concerned about simply removing their treasure enhancers from their binders or sleeves.

We have multiple players who are concerned about having someone else (even someone they know or one of their friends) carrying the treasure enhancers throughout the dungeon.

It sounds like you think people are concerned they can't trust their friends not to take their tokens. If so, that's not what I thought people were saying, and certainly not what I said. I'm concerned about tokens getting accidentally lost in the process of taking them out of the binder and having 10 different people carrying them through the dungeon. Especially when 9 of those people have no affinity for tokens. That's almost a guarantee that some CoA will get lost by someone eventually. I'm certainly not worried my friends will steal them. I will think twice before letting someone I don't know and trust carry them, which is I'm sure what Jeff was aiming for.

No, it sounds like you don't trust in the competence of your friends to not lose something you entrust them with.

Trust isn't just about stealing (or the lack thereof). Trust is also about reliability and dependability.

All true, but I don't see its relevance.

My sister-in-law is late for everything. She was planning on coming over today at 9am. She arrived at 2.

Doesn't make her a bad person. But if we are going to a 7pm movie, we plan on dinner at our place first. And she's always late for that, and we go to the movie and eat after. She is not responsible, dependable, trustworthy (if a clock is involved) or least of all punctual.

But she's family, and we aren't cutting ties with her, and we aren't creating drama by pretending she can meet us at the theatre at 6:45. We accommodate her shortcoming, and she accommodates ours.

So I'd never tell people they should only have friends who are perfect, because then they'd never have any.

I agree with you Brad.

Not trusting someone does not necessarily imply any sort of moral judgment nor should it automatically be taken as a personal insult.

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