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TOPIC: 2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing)

2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #1

  • Druegar
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We will be issuing errata on all the 2019 polymorph items. The tokens say it requires a Free Action to change form, but the transformation actually happens instantaneously--no Free or Standard Action required. Sorry for not catching that before they went to print. :blush:
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
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If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously

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2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #2

There's no teal in this post

:blink:
"IMHO we like to solve problems here on the forums that are only perceived problems due to a myopic view." -Bob C

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2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #3

How many instant actions does one get per turn?

Can I
start the turn as an elemental,
polymorph back to human,
use my free action,
polymorph into a different elemental,
and use my standard action to attack,
all in one turn?
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2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #4

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Arnold wrote: There's no teal in this post
:blink:

Are you opposed to that change...? :huh:
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections in this thread .
If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously

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Last edit: by Druegar.

2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #5

Druegar wrote: We will be issuing errata on all the 2019 polymorph items. The tokens say it requires a Free Action to change form, but the transformation actually happens instantaneously--no Free or Standard Action required. Sorry for not catching that before they went to print. :blush:


Sounds good to me!

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2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #6

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Wade Schwendemann wrote: How many instant actions does one get per turn?

As of this writing, there is no limit to the number of instantaneous actions.
  • Is it possible that could change it the future?
    Yes
  • Will that change if players discover a sleaze for it?
    Almost certainly
  • Should one buy tens of thousands of dollars in tokens based on the assumption that it will never change?
    YES! You should absolutely do that! Do it now.

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Wade Schwendemann wrote: Can I
start the turn as an elemental,
polymorph back to human,
use my free action,
polymorph into a different elemental,
and use my standard action to attack,
all in one turn?

My understanding of the current rules would permit that scenario. I'm not sure why one would want to polymorph into more than one elemental per round, but as of now, I would say that's permitted. (see bulleted disclaimers above)
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections in this thread .
If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously

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2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #7

Druegar wrote:

Arnold wrote: There's no teal in this post
:blink:

Are you opposed to that change...? :huh:



Nope. Not opposed to the change. Just bummed that the tokens went out with the incorrect phrasing.



Here is why I think there should be a limit on the # of instantaneous actions one can take from the Poly items:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Matt Goodman wrote: Thanks! Original post updated. Basically this for any of them:

Rd 1: polymorph and slide attack
Rd 2: un-polymorph and drink potion
Rd 3: polymorph and slide attack


I think looking at the legendary can give us a clue. Since spell-casting is built into the Legendary, I'm leaning towards your scenario being not-allowed.

Otherwise, You could:

Rd 1: polymorph and slide attack
Rd 2: un-polymorph and cast spell
Rd 3: polymorph and slide attack

That ability seems like it's explicitly set aside for the Legendary.


Has it ever been determined whether un-polymorphing takes an action, a free action, or is just instantaneous?

Tokendb.com on one of the potions says " The effect lasts until the end of the room or until ended by the player–whichever comes first." which doesn't really clear that up.


From potion polymorph asp:
The transformation from human(oid) to asp, or vice versa, is instantaneous. However, since drinking a potion requires a Standard Action, unless the character can drink this potion as a Free Action, the character may not attack the same round this potion is consumed.

And from coronet of arch-druid:
The transformation from human(oid) to dire bear, or vice versa, is instantaneous. The druid may attack the same round the transformation occurred, assuming the druid has not used up his/her Standard Action for that round.

So, it doesnt even use up your free action to turn back to human.


Nice! It doesn't seem broken at all, because it costs a first level spell every time you polymorph.


It is still my assumption that you can only use the Belt / Necklace once per room. Otherwise, the only thing that differentiates the relic from the legendary is 1.5 damage on the wheel and the potion bit.

Jeff has definitely stated that spell-casting is linked to the Legendary necklace.

If you were allowed to use each necklace multiple times, the relic would already allow casting spells with the change-change-back method..


I think the Legendary also gives an extra action somehow. I have no issue with being able to use it multiple times in a room, since it costs a first level spell every time you do.

Brad, I agree the shirt is still useful. If I outfit the UR belt, I'll also outfit Shirt of the Fae.


True. At the UR level, you'd be burning spells quite quickly. Especially if you were using your regular action in humanoid form to cast another spell.

As soon as you get to the Relic, though...it starts to feel like sleeze to me. You basically get a free Shirt of the Fae at this point by manipulating turning/turning back.

It should be set up so that casting spells either requires transmuting to Legendary or equipping Shirt of the Fae.

So I'm in favor of the once/room because that gives folks more incentive to work towards the Legendary (which I am planning to do).

Thematically, I just think that changing/changing back/changing again doesn't feel right.

I definitely understand your stance, though. We'll have to see what Jeff's intent is.


Basically- I don't think you should be able to change and attack. Then on the next turn change back and cast. Then on the third turn change back into elemental and attack.

Kind of defeats the purpose of (w/ spells) on Iktomi's.
"IMHO we like to solve problems here on the forums that are only perceived problems due to a myopic view." -Bob C

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2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #8

Druegar wrote:

  • Should one buy tens of thousands of dollars in tokens based on the assumption that it will never change?
    YES! You should absolutely do that! Do it now.
  • [/ul]

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    Perhaps this should have been in teal?

    J/k. I think this one is clear enough without the color change.
    First ever death in True Horde
    "Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
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    2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #9

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    Arnold wrote: I don't think you should be able to change and attack. Then on the next turn change back and cast. Then on the third turn change back into elemental and attack.

    Kind of defeats the purpose of (w/ spells) on Iktomi's.

    I'll be sure to discuss that with the folks who matter. Thanks for the tip.
    Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
    Please post TDb corrections in this thread .
    If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously

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    2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #10

    Arnold wrote:

    Druegar wrote:

    Arnold wrote: There's no teal in this post
    :blink:

    Are you opposed to that change...? :huh:



    Nope. Not opposed to the change. Just bummed that the tokens went out with the incorrect phrasing.


    I assume Druegar will be hanging out at GenCon with a sharpie for us? :)
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    2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #11

    Druegar wrote:

    Arnold wrote: I don't think you should be able to change and attack. Then on the next turn change back and cast. Then on the third turn change back into elemental and attack.

    Kind of defeats the purpose of (w/ spells) on Iktomi's.

    I'll be sure to discuss that with the folks who matter. Thanks for the tip.


    It doesn't completely defeat the purpose of the Legendary having "with spells". Since you can cast the spell while still an Elemental, you still get the Elemental damage resistance the turn you're casting a spell. If you have the Relic and un-polymorph to cast the spell, you lose the Elemental damage resistance for the turn. Which is pretty substantial.

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    2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing) 5 years 2 months ago #12

    Mike Steele wrote:

    Druegar wrote:

    Arnold wrote: I don't think you should be able to change and attack. Then on the next turn change back and cast. Then on the third turn change back into elemental and attack.

    Kind of defeats the purpose of (w/ spells) on Iktomi's.

    I'll be sure to discuss that with the folks who matter. Thanks for the tip.


    It doesn't completely defeat the purpose of the Legendary having "with spells". Since you can cast the spell while still an Elemental, you still get the Elemental damage resistance the turn you're casting a spell. If you have the Relic and un-polymorph to cast the spell, you lose the Elemental damage resistance for the turn. Which is pretty substantial.


    This may be the sleaze you were looking for, but if changing is instantaneous, one could change from elemental to human, cast, then change back to elemental and maintain resistance through the monster turn.

    Do that again next round as you see fit.

    Another question, can you remain an elemental fron room to room?

    Ie, can I change in room 6, then start room 7 in elemental form in case the party loses initiative?
    First ever death in True Horde
    "Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
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