TOPIC: Enchanter's Whetstone with monk/ranger oddities

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote: Huh. This is interesting.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to sort out in another thread.

I had no idea that having a +5 in one hand and a +1 in the other meant that you get +5 to both. That's really awkward.

It’s sleaze. There’s only room for one “to hit” number, so dual wielders get the benefit. Most players don’t take advantage, but some do.

Why is it ruled that the lower weapon sleazes up? It definitely seems like it should be the reverse.

Mostly because it would feel pretty bad as a ranger or monk to go out and upgrade one of your weapons only to be told it didn't impact the party card.

Yeah, but on the flip side, you get a double bonus for only upgrading the one. It seems like since Rangers/Monks are already way ahead in damage, that it should be harder for them to upgrade. Just my 2 cents.

I'll go find cover before the Trackers and Ninjas murder me now.

jon wrote: You only get the +5 to hit on the main hand. Even if you have 2 +5 Asher’s it’s onky +5 not plus 10.

If main is plus 2 and offhand is +5 , only the +2 will be calculated in the To hit spot.

That’s how the apps calculate it.

If that is is how it calculates, then the app needs an update. Your bonus should be whichever is better; if you have +2 main hand and +5 off hand, the party card should have your +5 bonus.

But going back to the example of +1 rare with whetstone and +5 viper fang: the rare weapon has +1 damage over the viper fang on the party card, but the viper fang has +5 vs +2...is it correct to get the better from each? SHOULD that be correct, or should both stats be required to come from the same weapon? And if so, which gets priority, to-hit or damage?

So what is going to end up happening is, Whetstone will be banned if you’re using a UR+ weapon in either hand. Seems like the simplest way to resolve it.

This is why we can’t have nice things

Brad Mortensen wrote: So what is going to end up happening is, Whetstone will be banned if you’re using a UR+ weapon in either hand. Seems like the simplest way to resolve it.

This is why we can’t have nice things

Yeah I can see this being ruled that way most of the time. If you have an UR weapon the whetstone will just be ignored.

Now, if you choose to hide your UR weapon and present the coach with rares, then your party card will be adjusted accordingly.

valetutto wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: So what is going to end up happening is, Whetstone will be banned if you’re using a UR+ weapon in either hand. Seems like the simplest way to resolve it.

This is why we can’t have nice things

Yeah I can see this being ruled that way most of the time. If you have an UR weapon the whetstone will just be ignored.

Now, if you choose to hide your UR weapon and present the coach with rares, then your party card will be adjusted accordingly.

Rare weapon, whetstone, off-hand orb of might. Yes for rogue (and all single puck classes), no for ranger or monk. Might be a bit unfair. Just sayin'.

kurtreznor wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: So what is going to end up happening is, Whetstone will be banned if you’re using a UR+ weapon in either hand. Seems like the simplest way to resolve it.

This is why we can’t have nice things

Yeah I can see this being ruled that way most of the time. If you have an UR weapon the whetstone will just be ignored.

Now, if you choose to hide your UR weapon and present the coach with rares, then your party card will be adjusted accordingly.

Rare weapon, whetstone, off-hand orb of might. Yes for rogue (and all single puck classes), no for ranger or monk. Might be a bit unfair. Just sayin'.

I meant just for dual wielders. When anyone else holds the Orb it’s not a weapon. So to speak. It seems very hard for others to abuse it.

But I wasn’t advocating for that ruling. I was just predicting it would happen.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: So what is going to end up happening is, Whetstone will be banned if you’re using a UR+ weapon in either hand. Seems like the simplest way to resolve it.

This is why we can’t have nice things

Yeah I can see this being ruled that way most of the time. If you have an UR weapon the whetstone will just be ignored.

Now, if you choose to hide your UR weapon and present the coach with rares, then your party card will be adjusted accordingly.

Rare weapon, whetstone, off-hand orb of might. Yes for rogue (and all single puck classes), no for ranger or monk. Might be a bit unfair. Just sayin'.

I meant just for dual wielders. When anyone else holds the Orb it’s not a weapon. So to speak. It seems very hard for others to abuse it.

But I wasn’t advocating for that ruling. I was just predicting it would happen.

Yes, i understand what you were saying, that was my point. It seems unfair to dual weilders when the other classes can equip the exact same items but get a better bonus from them, when that is not the design of the tokens.

The whetstone bonus should apply to all rare weapons. The only question is which stats go on the party card: mainhand? Higher bonus from either? Something else?

kurtreznor wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: So what is going to end up happening is, Whetstone will be banned if you’re using a UR+ weapon in either hand. Seems like the simplest way to resolve it.

This is why we can’t have nice things

Yeah I can see this being ruled that way most of the time. If you have an UR weapon the whetstone will just be ignored.

Now, if you choose to hide your UR weapon and present the coach with rares, then your party card will be adjusted accordingly.

Rare weapon, whetstone, off-hand orb of might. Yes for rogue (and all single puck classes), no for ranger or monk. Might be a bit unfair. Just sayin'.

I meant just for dual wielders. When anyone else holds the Orb it’s not a weapon. So to speak. It seems very hard for others to abuse it.

But I wasn’t advocating for that ruling. I was just predicting it would happen.

Yes, i understand what you were saying, that was my point. It seems unfair to dual weilders when the other classes can equip the exact same items but get a better bonus from them, when that is not the design of the tokens.

The whetstone bonus should apply to all rare weapons. The only question is which stats go on the party card: mainhand? Higher bonus from either? Something else?

Having thought this through a bit, I’d recommend doing as we do for the dual puck classes - and giving the player the best options.

This would mean for the two puck classes:

Highest to-hit from either weapon.

Highest to-damage from either weapon.

A few reflections on this:

A. Damage wise, I believe this is how we do runestone today - if you equip 2 weapons as a monk or ranger and a +1 damage runestone, you get it on the party card. If you have a runestone fitting base and equip two +1 damage runestone s, you get +2 damage on the party card even if you have two melee weapons.

B. This suddenly makes the poison damage being baked into the wheel of the viper strike fangs make a ton of sense - as if instead the weapon gave “+x poison damage” we’d have the same questions about what to put on the party card when rangers or monks equipped just one viper strike fang and some other offhand weapon.

kurtreznor wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: So what is going to end up happening is, Whetstone will be banned if you’re using a UR+ weapon in either hand. Seems like the simplest way to resolve it.

This is why we can’t have nice things

Yeah I can see this being ruled that way most of the time. If you have an UR weapon the whetstone will just be ignored.

Now, if you choose to hide your UR weapon and present the coach with rares, then your party card will be adjusted accordingly.

Rare weapon, whetstone, off-hand orb of might. Yes for rogue (and all single puck classes), no for ranger or monk. Might be a bit unfair. Just sayin'.

I meant just for dual wielders. When anyone else holds the Orb it’s not a weapon. So to speak. It seems very hard for others to abuse it.

But I wasn’t advocating for that ruling. I was just predicting it would happen.

Yes, i understand what you were saying, that was my point. It seems unfair to dual weilders when the other classes can equip the exact same items but get a better bonus from them, when that is not the design of the tokens.

The whetstone bonus should apply to all rare weapons. The only question is which stats go on the party card: mainhand? Higher bonus from either? Something else?

If main hand damage bonus is put on the party card, then you just gave the Orb +1 damage. Sounds like you would agree that’s wrong. But is that worse than a common axe getting +5 to hit from a legendary Viper?

It’s a sticky problem, to be sure