TOPIC: Transmute Recipes -- Part Two

I'm still arguing for no fleece on any relics, 1 for legendaries.

There will always be new relics and legendaries every year. Their requirements are always high, as everyone already agrees. These high requirements were expected going forward. When I got into the transmute game, I looked at those legendary recipes and thought the worst thing to get would be all that fleece, since those are only available via play or pay. As it is, I have the primary ingredients for at least three legendaries waiting in the wings. The thing that's been holding me back is largely the gold and fleeces. I can't be alone in this.

Now those of us who have been saving (been on their quest, call it what you want) for years thinking they will be able to transmute a legendary next year are now another number of years (with increasing play costs) further away all because the goal posts get moved over speculation of the price of bits in the market?

No. No fleece on relics, 1 for legendaries. I'm sticking to my guns on this. Especially in a year where a story relic requires 18 bits and another relic requires 4.

On a personal level, barring the introduction of a permanent psionic class, my TD quest as a player will likely end with the astral plane event in 2021. TD will be too expensive to play at that point, and that event is the one thing that's keeping me excited about playing for the foreseeable future. It isn't the transmuting that makes me feel like I'm on a quest, it's the adventures and storyline and upcoming story arc events that do that. Transmuting is money and time invested, and any increase to the costs of those investments are hits to my wallet and my continued interest in TD. As I said above, I can't be alone in this.

Raising bit requirements on legendaries now when their availability is already being planned to be adjusted down means those recipes with raised requirements will become that much more difficult to transmute for new token players later down the road. If the plan for the future is to reduce bit frequency at the box then that only strengthens the argument to keep no fleece on relics, 1 for legendaries as standard for their recipes going forward.

I still feel bad for the newbies that bought into the kilt transmute under the assumption that the recipe would be the same as the last ones. Yes I know that it is only 1 fleece different...

Is there any way we could budge on perhaps getting rid of the fleece?

On the other hand there are a ridiculous amount of legendaries out there, I am sure that has a great impact on the game.

I do think that the eldritch set is sort of a thank you for staying and playing td over the years and should be more attainable. I had a brief look for golden fleece on sale from secondary vendors, and there is not much out there. Would be nice if some of the smaller new players did not have to worry about paying others for something. TD should be more encompassing to all, including the newer players.

Recipes look good - I was a bit concerned about the Mystic Silk, but it is in line with its drop rate in treasure packs.

Jeff, I'd like a small clarification on this part of your post:

Jeff Martin wrote: And in 2020+, we will drop the number of Golden Fleece needed in Transmuted recipes.

Are you saying that the fleece in these recipes might be lowered in 2020+ (which due to timing may just apply to Legendaries)?Or are you just saying that recipes for future Transmuted will be lower?

So could i make wysedths with the relucblute, the ur wysedths, 2 oil of enchant and 2 aragonite and a wish ring?

Fiddy wrote: Jeff, I'd like a small clarification on this part of your post:

Jeff Martin wrote: And in 2020+, we will drop the number of Golden Fleece needed in Transmuted recipes.

Are you saying that the fleece in these recipes might be lowered in 2020+ (which due to timing may just apply to Legendaries)?Or are you just saying that recipes for future Transmuted will be lower?

I am a bit worried about the amount of monster tokens in treasure boxes decreasing. I know we won't be increasing the number of runs we do, in fact we decreased them this year due to the large increase in price. I'd rather have top end recipes stay at a higher level of Fleece and lower ones require some monster tokens then have a big drop in the percentage of pulls that are monster tokens. I think going to six different monster tokens per year, which I totally am in favor of, will accomplish some of the goal if all six are required for recipes.

I'd like to see a mini storyscape token each year that required one of each of the monster tokens that year, and not many other ingredients. That would pull six monster tokens per transmute out of the system.

Jeff Martin wrote:
Please remember I want these Relic/Legendary tokens to be a mini-quest within the game for the player. Except for some rare players, most players won't come "naturally" to all the necessary ingredients. I want them to have to search out, trade, and acquire these items -- and feel a sense of accomplishment when they transmute their new awesome token.

Yes! This is always what attracted me to tokens in all honesty, the thrill of the chase! Thanks Jeff!

Brad Mortensen wrote:
I don’t say this to taunt you. But what this year has taught me is, if you get your hands on a bit, never ever let it go.

Yes, and that is the way it always use to be...only the last couple years have the value of Monster bits and Golden Fleece fallen. I agree with trying to get back to the days where each monster bit was worth roughly $8-9 dollars, and Fleece $75-85 dollars. This was pretty consistent for a long time and I have no problem getting back to that model in 2020+.

By including an extra Fleece in the Eldritch recipe basically equates to an extra $50-60 at this point.

These look good to me Jeff.

Hawk Fingle wrote:
On a personal level, barring the introduction of a permanent psionic class, my TD quest as a player will likely end with the astral plane event in 2021. TD will be too expensive to play at that point, and that event is the one thing that's keeping me excited about playing for the foreseeable future. It isn't the transmuting that makes me feel like I'm on a quest, it's the adventures and storyline and upcoming story arc events that do that. Transmuting is money and time invested, and any increase to the costs of those investments are hits to my wallet and my continued interest in TD. As I said above, I can't be alone in this.

Your not alone, the cost is getting prohibitive. I had some friends stop participating this year because of it. Personally I cut back on runs and will be skipping GHC dispite wanting to go, but such is life. Some people just have more money/lower travel costs then others.

Mike Steele wrote: I am a bit worried about the amount of monster tokens in treasure boxes decreasing. I know we won't be increasing the number of runs we do, in fact we decreased them this year due to the large increase in price.

It's the first concrete example of the dilution in the treasure mix Brad has been predicting for years. Which in a certain sense even make the TEs less fun as they start to feel mandatory just to tread water.

The two Widseth's Recipes seem comparable to me, so I think they are good. To be clear, for Recipe #2, you could turn in one Lute of Free Fury and three Amorgen's Ocarinas?

Jeff Martin wrote: Due to the expansion of TD runs in the last few years, Monster Bits (and Golden Fleece) have become much more common.

There are more of them, but there are also more people looking for them.

I really am questioning just how common they've become. As of the time I'm writing this (which likely is relying on some out of date info): Kirk apparently has 6 Fleece for sale, Trent appears to have 0, Mike Steele has 0, Matthew Hayward has 5, Chad has an unlisted quantity (but may be still in process of updating his inventory), Ed has none listed (but appears to be in process of inventorying), there are none on ebay.

So, on the market there appear be 11ish. Let's be generous and say Chad, Ed and others bring that up to 30 available.

That does not sound like Fleece are becoming too "common" to me. 30 Fleece. When you look at the the recipes we see right now, that basically means the market has enough fleece for 3 of each transmute to happen.