TOPIC: Contemplating Gregor's Tome

Picc wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

As I think about it I'm surprised were getting any focus tokens on a year where healing is getting nurfed hard.

That's what's surprised me as well. Normally another focus item doesn't bother me. This year between the eldritch nerf and the Lenses of Divine sight change just doesn't make sense to me with 2 changes lowering yet adding in another that does.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

Maybe give it some sort of penalty for using it, like taking damage?

So, not scarcasm so much as a way to work MEC into the discussion?

Maybe just limit it to damage spells.

And while we're at it, can we make it Wizard only? Druids are getting their legendary this year, that's enough.....

That seems appropriate. Maybe overpowered, though.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

Maybe give it some sort of penalty for using it, like taking damage?

So, not scarcasm so much as a way to work MEC into the discussion?

Maybe just limit it to damage spells.

And while we're at it, can we make it Wizard only? Druids are getting their legendary this year, that's enough.....

You shouldn’t stop there... make the 10 damage be a collected pool of HP, 1 from each party member...

Grekel! wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

Maybe give it some sort of penalty for using it, like taking damage?

So, not scarcasm so much as a way to work MEC into the discussion?

Maybe just limit it to damage spells.

And while we're at it, can we make it Wizard only? Druids are getting their legendary this year, that's enough.....

You shouldn’t stop there... make the 10 damage be a collected pool of HP, 1 from each party member...

Maybe just some errata requiring the Cleric or Druid to heal the damage on the following turn.

Mike Steele wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

Maybe give it some sort of penalty for using it, like taking damage?

So, not scarcasm so much as a way to work MEC into the discussion?

Maybe just limit it to damage spells.

And while we're at it, can we make it Wizard only? Druids are getting their legendary this year, that's enough.....

You shouldn’t stop there... make the 10 damage be a collected pool of HP, 1 from each party member...

Maybe just some errata requiring the Cleric or Druid to heal the damage on the following turn.

Why do all of you hate Clerics?

Well one good thing is always getting the skill test bonus makes the MEC better. I heard it was a bit underpowered.

MasterED wrote:

Incognito wrote: Just a correction of my own:

MasterED wrote: Just a correction -

Raven wrote: In its first incarnation (on the L&L forum) the token read, "Auto-succeed at skill checks & +1 to healing, damage spells, & polymorph attacks."

It was actually +2.

By having both powers on one token it was beyond OP.

Raven wrote: If there's a Tome slot eventually, it might be appropriate for a +1 Tome of focus. But if we put the +1 into a slotless token right now, then there'll be that much more backlash against any potential Tome slot in the future, because people would see it as losing a free +1 focus.

I respectfully disagree - look at Questor's Charm. When it launched the Charm slot it didn't get backlash.

I am fine with the Tome as it sits.

Putting an envelope to my head to predict the future (if you get the reference +1 to you)...

Soon there will be another Tome that does grant an auto succeed and who knows we might even see a Tome slot. It has been discussed in the forums just nothing yet.

Questor's Charm did NOT launch the Charm slot.

When it was first printed, Questor's Charm was slotless. It was only when other charms were printed that a Charm slot was formally created.

That is exactly what I meant. This was in relation to Raven saying that if there would be a Tome slot in the future there would be outrage for a Tome to go from Slotless to Slotted. Sorry my message wasn't received as intended.

Ed

Well, with Jeff's recent proclamations about the upcoming Tome slot, a large part of my objection to this (soon to be "slotted") token is abated.

I still think it could add a lot to the game in its Auto-succeed form, but perhaps that's something to discuss for some future iteration of token development.

Thank you all for contributing well thought-out arguments, and sharing your positions respectfully.

Except you, Mr. Sarcasm

Matt wrote:

Picc wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

As I think about it I'm surprised were getting any focus tokens on a year where healing is getting nurfed hard.

That's what's surprised me as well. Normally another focus item doesn't bother me. This year between the eldritch nerf and the Lenses of Divine sight change just doesn't make sense to me with 2 changes lowering yet adding in another that does.

I agree.

While I like the nerf to the Eldritch set, if the argument being used is that healing (and spell damage) is getting out of hand, then why is there a slotless Focus item being added?

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote:

Picc wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

As I think about it I'm surprised were getting any focus tokens on a year where healing is getting nurfed hard.

That's what's surprised me as well. Normally another focus item doesn't bother me. This year between the eldritch nerf and the Lenses of Divine sight change just doesn't make sense to me with 2 changes lowering yet adding in another that does.

I agree.

While I like the nerf to the Eldritch set, if the argument being used is that healing (and spell damage) is getting out of hand, then why is there a slotless Focus item being added?

It's slotted now - so no worries about that!


I think the problem wasn't mainly healing bonuses, it was LoDS doubling healing bonus, and the two piece Eldritch set granting a +10 healing bonus.

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote:

Picc wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

As I think about it I'm surprised were getting any focus tokens on a year where healing is getting nurfed hard.

That's what's surprised me as well. Normally another focus item doesn't bother me. This year between the eldritch nerf and the Lenses of Divine sight change just doesn't make sense to me with 2 changes lowering yet adding in another that does.

I agree.

While I like the nerf to the Eldritch set, if the argument being used is that healing (and spell damage) is getting out of hand, then why is there a slotless Focus item being added?

What bothers me most about the Eldritch set is it was supposedly nerfed because of too much healing, but at 5 items players not only still get the full +10 healing, they also get +4 damage, which is nearly equivalent to the Boots of Four Winds. So, players with fewer tokens are really depowered, while players with all five are supercharged, which just increases the gap between mid-level and top-level players.

Mike Steele wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote:

Picc wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

As I think about it I'm surprised were getting any focus tokens on a year where healing is getting nurfed hard.

That's what's surprised me as well. Normally another focus item doesn't bother me. This year between the eldritch nerf and the Lenses of Divine sight change just doesn't make sense to me with 2 changes lowering yet adding in another that does.

I agree.

While I like the nerf to the Eldritch set, if the argument being used is that healing (and spell damage) is getting out of hand, then why is there a slotless Focus item being added?

What bothers me most about the Eldritch set is it was supposedly nerfed because of too much healing, but at 5 items players not only still get the full +10 healing, they also get +4 damage, which is nearly equivalent to the Boots of Four Winds. So, players with fewer tokens are really depowered, while players with all five are supercharged, which just increases the gap between mid-level and top-level players.

The 5 piece set conflicts with a Focus ring pr a RpSS, so will have less healing than it used to, all things being equal.

We'll have to wait and see, but I think it was reasonably typical for BiS healers to be healing around 2x26 points of healing with level 0 cure minor wounds last year.

This year, they are looking at 20+whatever their Eldrith healing bonus is.

Even if their Eldritch healing bonus is 10, it will be 30 points of healing instead of 2x26.

Healing is way down now matter how you slice it at the top tier, and way, way down in the tier of people with exactly 2 Eldritch pieces.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote:

Picc wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: We could just make Gregor's Tome a +10 Focus Token.

I am suspecting some sarcasm here.

Ed

As I think about it I'm surprised were getting any focus tokens on a year where healing is getting nurfed hard.

That's what's surprised me as well. Normally another focus item doesn't bother me. This year between the eldritch nerf and the Lenses of Divine sight change just doesn't make sense to me with 2 changes lowering yet adding in another that does.

I agree.

While I like the nerf to the Eldritch set, if the argument being used is that healing (and spell damage) is getting out of hand, then why is there a slotless Focus item being added?

What bothers me most about the Eldritch set is it was supposedly nerfed because of too much healing, but at 5 items players not only still get the full +10 healing, they also get +4 damage, which is nearly equivalent to the Boots of Four Winds. So, players with fewer tokens are really depowered, while players with all five are supercharged, which just increases the gap between mid-level and top-level players.

The 5 piece set conflicts with a Focus ring pr a RpSS, so will have less healing than it used to, all things being equal.

We'll have to wait and see, but I think it was reasonably typical for BiS healers to be healing around 2x26 points of healing with level 0 cure minor wounds last year.

This year, they are looking at 20+whatever their Eldrith healing bonus is.

Even if their Eldritch healing bonus is 10, it will be 30 points of healing instead of 2x26.

Healing is way down now matter how you slice it at the top tier, and way, way down in the tier of people with exactly 2 Eldritch pieces.

No question that the LoDS change impacts medium and top builds in a huge way, but the Eldritch change disproportionately hits people with fewer Eldritch tokens. Which I'm sure was the intent, but I wish it had been capped at level 3.