TOPIC: Notes about Tokens for 2019 !!

Mike Steele wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: When you talk about balancing dungeon...

Being a combat DM, having the MeC usable more than once in the dungeon is just crazy. Last year when the shadow in the brambles was attacking, the group could not touch it. The wizard cuts themselves and few times and poof it is dead. The damage output, without being able to be targeted is a little off. A measly 10 points of damage for 90+ points is crazy
.

MeC generates at most 20 points of damage a round.

This. It sounds like the token was being used wrong. MEC only double the damage printed on the character card. So 20 for Fireball/Lightning Storm. Or 18 for the level 2 slide spells. Focus item bonuses are not included. Says so right on the charm.

So a 54 point Fireball (which includes every Focus bonus I can find to date) would only do 74 with the MEC. Still a lot, but not great.

A 74 point fireball seems pretty great to me. And the MEC adding 20 by itself when every focus item added together adding only 34 (including Legendaries) seems pretty great.

. Yes - but MEC only adds 20 to the fireball... it’s a scaled bonus based on spell strength.

"Only" adding 20 when a Legendary only adds 5. And in many cases a Cleric or Druid is healing that 10 points of damage.

The Legendary also adds +5 to a 1-pt spell, where MEC adds just 1 at a cost of 10hp.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: When you talk about balancing dungeon...

Being a combat DM, having the MeC usable more than once in the dungeon is just crazy. Last year when the shadow in the brambles was attacking, the group could not touch it. The wizard cuts themselves and few times and poof it is dead. The damage output, without being able to be targeted is a little off. A measly 10 points of damage for 90+ points is crazy
.

MeC generates at most 20 points of damage a round.

This. It sounds like the token was being used wrong. MEC only double the damage printed on the character card. So 20 for Fireball/Lightning Storm. Or 18 for the level 2 slide spells. Focus item bonuses are not included. Says so right on the charm.

So a 54 point Fireball (which includes every Focus bonus I can find to date) would only do 74 with the MEC. Still a lot, but not great.

A 74 point fireball seems pretty great to me. And the MEC adding 20 by itself when every focus item added together adding only 34 (including Legendaries) seems pretty great.

. Yes - but MEC only adds 20 to the fireball... it’s a scaled bonus based on spell strength.

"Only" adding 20 when a Legendary only adds 5. And in many cases a Cleric or Druid is healing that 10 points of damage.

The Legendary also adds +5 to a 1-pt spell, where MEC adds just 1 at a cost of 10hp.

Are there one point Damage spells? The list Matthew posted recently has 6 (assuming passed skill test) as the lowest, which would still have the MEC adding more damage to the weakest damage spell than a Legendary does.

I think someone just calculated that the average amount added by MEC is over 10, which is double what any Legendary token adds.

Mike Steele wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: When you talk about balancing dungeon...

Being a combat DM, having the MeC usable more than once in the dungeon is just crazy. Last year when the shadow in the brambles was attacking, the group could not touch it. The wizard cuts themselves and few times and poof it is dead. The damage output, without being able to be targeted is a little off. A measly 10 points of damage for 90+ points is crazy
.

MeC generates at most 20 points of damage a round.

This. It sounds like the token was being used wrong. MEC only double the damage printed on the character card. So 20 for Fireball/Lightning Storm. Or 18 for the level 2 slide spells. Focus item bonuses are not included. Says so right on the charm.

So a 54 point Fireball (which includes every Focus bonus I can find to date) would only do 74 with the MEC. Still a lot, but not great.

A 74 point fireball seems pretty great to me. And the MEC adding 20 by itself when every focus item added together adding only 34 (including Legendaries) seems pretty great.

. Yes - but MEC only adds 20 to the fireball... it’s a scaled bonus based on spell strength.

"Only" adding 20 when a Legendary only adds 5. And in many cases a Cleric or Druid is healing that 10 points of damage.

The Legendary also adds +5 to a 1-pt spell, where MEC adds just 1 at a cost of 10hp.

Are there one point Damage spells? The list Matthew posted recently has 6 (assuming passed skill test) as the lowest, which would still have the MEC adding more damage to the weakest damage spell than a Legendary does.

I think someone just calculated that the average amount added by MEC is over 10, which is double what any Legendary token adds.

If every spell hits its slide and makes ithe skill check the average is 10.4. Which is double a Legendary, but again requires a 'perfect game' and has a cost of almost the same number of HP. Which in turn requires the cleric or potions to keep the wizard relatively safe (tougher with the Eldritch change).

Which in turn remands me, one can add 2 to that 34 focus bonus by adding the 2nd ans 3rd Eldritch pieces... Also, can one use 2 Relsa's Rings?

Grekel! wrote: On spell / damage resistance —-

Do the changes mean that there is essentially going to be no effect from wearing something like the dragon-tooth amulet?

My interpretation of this is the item still is just as effective. Spell Resistance and Damage Resistance is going away - not magic resistance (which can be more than Spells).

Rarely has a monster ever had Magic Resistance (I only know of 2 and and both were due to an item similar to the Dragon Tooth Amulet).

Ed

Mike Steele wrote: I think someone just calculated that the average amount added by MEC is over 10, which is double what any Legendary token adds.

I am going to post this here because you continue to say an item is overpowered if it does more damage then a legendary item. I disagree.

The criteria of "can the token provide (or heal/mitigate) more damage then a typical legendary focus item" is probably not a great benchmark. Here are a few examples where using that criteria the token would then be overpowered:

• Charm of Spell Swapping to cast a 16 point heal
• Lenses of Sage Speed casting a scroll for 10 points of damage
• Medallion of Mystic Mouth activating a wand for 12 points of damage
• +2 Assassin's Crossbow (or any insta-kill token) killing a monster
• New Cloak of the Shadowskin mitigating any large incoming damage
• Boots of the East Wind - did the same amount of damage as a the Legendary Focus item

I stopped looking after those so I hope we don't use that as a benchmark of a UR power.

Ed

Mike Steele wrote: I think someone just calculated that the average amount added by MEC is over 10, which is double what any Legendary token adds.

Oh my gosh you're right. The token does double the damage of a legendary...to the wearer!!! That can't be right. The wearer of MEC should never take more than maybe 3 pts of damage since it's only an UR. Especially given that the damage is unavoidable and can't be reduced by any other token.

Seriously, I think someone has already pointed out that there are many, many UR tokens that have more damage impact than a legendary. You keep saying that's not the issue, but then you keep bringing it up.

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think someone just calculated that the average amount added by MEC is over 10, which is double what any Legendary token adds.

I am going to post this here because you continue to say an item is overpowered if it does more damage then a legendary item. I disagree.

The criteria of "can the token provide (or heal/mitigate) more damage then a typical legendary focus item" is probably not a great benchmark. Here are a few examples where using that criteria the token would then be overpowered:

• Charm of Spell Swapping to cast a 16 point heal
• Lenses of Sage Speed casting a scroll for 10 points of damage
• Medallion of Mystic Mouth activating a wand for 12 points of damage
• +2 Assassin's Crossbow (or any insta-kill token) killing a monster
• New Cloak of the Shadowskin mitigating any large incoming damage
• Boots of the East Wind - did the same amount of damage as a the Legendary Focus item

I stopped looking after those so I hope we don't use that as a benchmark of a UR power.

Ed

Ed, those are all tokens that do different kinds of things. The MEC and the Legendary Focus items do the exact same thing for Wizards - add bonus damage to damage spells, and the UR MEC does it a WHOLE LOT better than the Legendary Focus items.

On a side note, I'm amazed that there are enough non-MEC tokens to add up to +34 damage. That's a lot more than I would have guessed. How many slots does all of that take up though.

Mike Steele wrote: On a side note, I'm amazed that there are enough non-MEC tokens to add up to +34 damage. That's a lot more than I would have guessed. How many slots does all of that take up though.

2 Rings (2x Relsa's) -> +10 Focus
Both hands (Drake's Staff) -> +5 Focus
Boots (Four WInds) -> +5 Focus
Earcuff (Inspiration) -> +4 Spell Damage from (maxed) Bardsong
Bracers (BoC, need full party) -> +3 Focus
Eyes (Lenses of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Shirt (Shirt of Focus) -> +2 Focus
Neck (Medallion of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Hand (Blessed Tempest Gloves) -> +3 Spell damage

34 total (some of it conditional)

Next year adding the Gregor's tome, and the three item Eldritch set bonus will bump tht up to 38

I didn't think you could wear two of the +5 relsa's rings. Then you end up at +8 with the relic and legendary.

Adam Guay wrote: I didn't think you could wear two of the +5 relsa's rings. Then you end up at +8 with the relic and legendary.

Correct

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: On a side note, I'm amazed that there are enough non-MEC tokens to add up to +34 damage. That's a lot more than I would have guessed. How many slots does all of that take up though.

2 Rings (2x Relsa's) -> +10 Focus
Both hands (Drake's Staff) -> +5 Focus
Boots (Four WInds) -> +5 Focus
Earcuff (Inspiration) -> +4 Spell Damage from (maxed) Bardsong
Bracers (BoC, need full party) -> +3 Focus
Eyes (Lenses of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Shirt (Shirt of Focus) -> +2 Focus
Neck (Medallion of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Hand (Blessed Tempest Gloves) -> +3 Spell damage

34 total (some of it conditional)

Next year adding the Gregor's tome, and the three item Eldritch set bonus will bump tht up to 38

So that's 10 tokens in 10 slots, including two Legendary tokens, to get to +32 Damage. And one token in one slot, MEC, to add up to +20 Damage. Once again - very overpowered.

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: On a side note, I'm amazed that there are enough non-MEC tokens to add up to +34 damage. That's a lot more than I would have guessed. How many slots does all of that take up though.

2 Rings (2x Relsa's) -> +10 Focus
Both hands (Drake's Staff) -> +5 Focus
Boots (Four WInds) -> +5 Focus
Earcuff (Inspiration) -> +4 Spell Damage from (maxed) Bardsong
Bracers (BoC, need full party) -> +3 Focus
Eyes (Lenses of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Shirt (Shirt of Focus) -> +2 Focus
Neck (Medallion of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Hand (Blessed Tempest Gloves) -> +3 Spell damage

34 total (some of it conditional)

Next year adding the Gregor's tome, and the three item Eldritch set bonus will bump tht up to 38

So that's 10 tokens in 10 slots, including two Legendary tokens, to get to +32 Damage. And one token in one slot, MEC, to add up to +20 Damage. Once again - very overpowered.

Incorrect. One UR to get between 3 and 20 (and the twenty only once or twice) averaging 10.4 at the cost of 10 HP every time. versus 32 every time with no extra down side.