TOPIC: HP Hoarders Anonymous

Hi, my name is Boilerplate, and I’m an HP hoarder. I blame Harlax for this terrible affliction since he gave me my first HP “hit” at TDC Horde (my first time playing TD) when he loaned me his 74 HP MEC wizard build. It blew my mind. So. Much. Fun. (And yes, I did manage to die, get rezzed, and immediately MEC myself to death with a glorious lightning storm. Loved it.)

How much HP is too much HP? I posed a similar question last year in the Wizard’s Tower. Link here: truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=246014 . Not sure we ever reached a consensus on the “hp sweet spot for MEC wizards.”

For me, I start getting the shakes when my build has less than 65. Why? I dunno. Kind of an arbitrary feeling. But if I were to try to articulate a few reasons, they would go something like this:

First, when running at HC or above, I use MEC on all spells except zero level. I never slide - always spell swap for more damage spells.

Second, high HP is my answer to miserable AC. I expect to take a licking, and high HP helps me keep on ticking.

Third, I take personal pride in allowing the Paladin to defend someone else - especially when running with newer players. High HP makes this possible.

Fourth, I am super risk averse. Death sucks (except in a blaze of glory at True Horde). And more HP is like a nice cozy blanket that makes me feel like death is standing a little farther away.

Fifth, while I know that there are lots of con and HP boosters available, I think I am equipping all the ones that make sense for high end builds (I.e., don’t compete with critical class tokens or TEs). I equip icecrag, belt of baneful mettle, Tavernbane, synergy, IS charming cabachon, IS garnet cube, and RoSP segment 7. If anyone else sees intelligent ways to pick up extra HP, I’m all ears! (I do have Wil’s, but I think my other charms are too important.) Here is my typical build, if you are curious - not sure whether the TDCC link will work: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/127b2fbf-def0-4c0b-97ef-07f104f4a3b5 .

Finally - and this is a doozy this year, I am even more nervous about HP with the major nerfing of healing going on for next year (LoDS and removal of 10 pt healing bonus from 2 piece eldritch set). Wizards are going to need the extra 5 HP now more than ever.

And yes, I also carry 6 charms of synergy to share, Tulz, distilled healing, lotus blossom bowls, and shrooms. Overkill? Maybe. But see points 1-6 above. Oh, and see my opening sentence. I have a problem.

So that brings me to the Great Eldritch Kilt Debate. Tavernbane was the first ever UR token I purchased, in large part because of the fun I had with Harlax’s high HP build. And also because I was excited about the prospect of it getting even fancier if I managed to collect all three kilts and turn them into the eldritch kilt. That’s been my top collecting goal since I started playing. Right or wrong, naive or otherwise, I never imagined that “upgrading” to the cool green kilt would end up causing me to “downgrade” the stat I cared most about when I bought that first UR kilt. Best I can tell (in my admittedly limited experience), that has never been the case with any other transmuted token in TD history, be it relic, eldritch, or legendary. Of course there is a first time for everything, and maybe the original kilt design went too far and a correction is necessary. But for this confessed HP addict, taking any HP hit to make the eldritch kilt just won’t feel good. Certainly takes some of the excitement out of actually transmuting my first eldritch item. Shouldn’t building eldritch items be unequivocally positive? For the good of the game to promote maximum collecting and transmuting?

(Now as I said elsewhere, if folks are worried about +6 str or dex on the green kilt, go with something like +4 to one stat and +5 hp. That would be fine with me. Just keep your hands off my HP! Gotta have my fix! )

+1

Boilerplate wrote: Hi, my name is Boilerplate, and I’m an HP hoarder. I blame Harlax for this terrible affliction since he gave me my first HP “hit” at TDC Horde (my first time playing TD) when he loaned me his 74 HP MEC wizard build. It blew my mind. So. Much. Fun. (And yes, I did manage to die, get rezzed, and immediately MEC myself to death with a glorious lightning storm. Loved it.)

How much HP is too much HP? I posed a similar question last year in the Wizard’s Tower. Link here: truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=246014 . Not sure we ever reached a consensus on the “hp sweet spot for MEC wizards.”

For me, I start getting the shakes when my build has less than 65. Why? I dunno. Kind of an arbitrary feeling. But if I were to try to articulate a few reasons, they would go something like this:

First, when running at HC or above, I use MEC on all spells except zero level. I never slide - always spell swap for more damage spells.

Second, high HP is my answer to miserable AC. I expect to take a licking, and high HP helps me keep on ticking.

Third, I take personal pride in allowing the Paladin to defend someone else - especially when running with newer players. High HP makes this possible.

Fourth, I am super risk averse. Death sucks (except in a blaze of glory at True Horde). And more HP is like a nice cozy blanket that makes me feel like death is standing a little farther away.

Fifth, while I know that there are lots of con and HP boosters available, I think I am equipping all the ones that make sense for high end builds (I.e., don’t compete with critical class tokens or TEs). I equip icecrag, belt of baneful mettle, Tavernbane, synergy, IS charming cabachon, IS garnet cube, and RoSP segment 7. If anyone else sees intelligent ways to pick up extra HP, I’m all ears! (I do have Wil’s, but I think my other charms are too important.) Here is my typical build, if you are curious - not sure whether the TDCC link will work: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/127b2fbf-def0-4c0b-97ef-07f104f4a3b5 .

Finally - and this is a doozy this year, I am even more nervous about HP with the major nerfing of healing going on for next year (LoDS and removal of 10 pt healing bonus from 2 piece eldritch set). Wizards are going to need the extra 5 HP now more than ever.

And yes, I also carry 6 charms of synergy to share, Tulz, distilled healing, lotus blossom bowls, and shrooms. Overkill? Maybe. But see points 1-6 above. Oh, and see my opening sentence. I have a problem.

So that brings me to the Great Eldritch Kilt Debate. Tavernbane was the first ever UR token I purchased, in large part because of the fun I had with Harlax’s high HP build. And also because I was excited about the prospect of it getting even fancier if I managed to collect all three kilts and turn them into the eldritch kilt. That’s been my top collecting goal since I started playing. Right or wrong, naive or otherwise, I never imagined that “upgrading” to the cool green kilt would end up causing me to “downgrade” the stat I cared most about when I bought that first UR kilt. Best I can tell (in my admittedly limited experience), that has never been the case with any other transmuted token in TD history, be it relic, eldritch, or legendary. Of course there is a first time for everything, and maybe the original kilt design went too far and a correction is necessary. But for this confessed HP addict, taking any HP hit to make the eldritch kilt just won’t feel good. Certainly takes some of the excitement out of actually transmuting my first eldritch item. Shouldn’t building eldritch items be unequivocally positive? For the good of the game to promote maximum collecting and transmuting?

(Now as I said elsewhere, if folks are worried about +6 str or dex on the green kilt, go with something like +4 to one stat and +5 hp. That would be fine with me. Just keep your hands off my HP! Gotta have my fix! )

Love it

Bob Chasan wrote:

James J Krot wrote: Join the 100 hp wizards group, never worry about cutting yourself to much again.

Is that really even possible?

I imagine so, let's see...


Start with Supreme Ring of Elemental Command and Rod of Seven Parts for 5th level to begin with 22, and then:

tokendb.com/affects-max-hp/increases-max-hp/

Consumables max HP boosters: +6 (28 total)
Elixir of Vitality - +1
Rare Totem Paint - +4
Yew Runestone - +1

HP boosters: +35 (63 total)
Ale Master Earcuff - +3
Full Charm of Synergy Effect - +10
Charm of Health - +2
Wil's Dragon Heart - +4
Ioun Stone Charming Cabochon w/3 charms - +3
Ioun Stone Norse Opal - +1
Ring of the Dire Boar - +3
Shirt of the Underdark - +5
Tankard of Health - +2

Con boosters: +26 CON = +65 HP (128 total)
RoSP +1
Medallion of Valhalla +4
Ice Crag Hero's Earciff +2
Ioun Stone Garnet Sphere and Cube - +3
Belt of Blessed Constitution - +2
Berserker Cloak - +2
Boots of Might - +2
Bracers of Fast Fitness - +2
Gloves of the Dark Gnome - +2
Kilt of Tavernbane - +6

Plus you can expend a wish ring wish to equip a second neck slot item to put in Amulet of the Champion for another 10 so 138.

Hello... I don't play a wizard much but when I do I play my cranky old man build... non caster wizard...

I did want to chime in on two things that most people in the token discussion aren't realizing.

1. There will be a new transmute that will help with potions (1/game - drink a potion as a Free action) it's not much but it's something...

2. The bigger thing... With the LoDS and +10 Eldritch healing the higher level dungeons had to be cranked up to 11 to make them a challenge. The nerfs to LoDS and Eldritch items in general are going to make it easier for Jeff to not have to do crazy things like 2 giants doing ~30hp damage a round to everyone just to challenge a group with the old healing. I believe that dungeon design will get easier and the encounters will be somewhat easier next year with these changes. I don't think Jeff would cut healing and leave damage output the same. Same goes for Grind. The level 0 healing spell that heals 2 for 19-20+ made tuning dungeons and grind harder.

Just something to think about...

Boilerplate wrote: Hi, my name is Boilerplate, and I’m an HP hoarder. I blame Harlax for this terrible affliction since he gave me my first HP “hit” at TDC Horde (my first time playing TD) when he loaned me his 74 HP MEC wizard build. It blew my mind. So. Much. Fun. (And yes, I did manage to die, get rezzed, and immediately MEC myself to death with a glorious lightning storm. Loved it.)

How much HP is too much HP? I posed a similar question last year in the Wizard’s Tower. Link here: truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=246014 . Not sure we ever reached a consensus on the “hp sweet spot for MEC wizards.”

For me, I start getting the shakes when my build has less than 65. Why? I dunno. Kind of an arbitrary feeling. But if I were to try to articulate a few reasons, they would go something like this:

First, when running at HC or above, I use MEC on all spells except zero level. I never slide - always spell swap for more damage spells.

Second, high HP is my answer to miserable AC. I expect to take a licking, and high HP helps me keep on ticking.

Third, I take personal pride in allowing the Paladin to defend someone else - especially when running with newer players. High HP makes this possible.

Fourth, I am super risk averse. Death sucks (except in a blaze of glory at True Horde). And more HP is like a nice cozy blanket that makes me feel like death is standing a little farther away.

Fifth, while I know that there are lots of con and HP boosters available, I think I am equipping all the ones that make sense for high end builds (I.e., don’t compete with critical class tokens or TEs). I equip icecrag, belt of baneful mettle, Tavernbane, synergy, IS charming cabachon, IS garnet cube, and RoSP segment 7. If anyone else sees intelligent ways to pick up extra HP, I’m all ears! (I do have Wil’s, but I think my other charms are too important.) Here is my typical build, if you are curious - not sure whether the TDCC link will work: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/127b2fbf-def0-4c0b-97ef-07f104f4a3b5 .

Finally - and this is a doozy this year, I am even more nervous about HP with the major nerfing of healing going on for next year (LoDS and removal of 10 pt healing bonus from 2 piece eldritch set). Wizards are going to need the extra 5 HP now more than ever.

And yes, I also carry 6 charms of synergy to share, Tulz, distilled healing, lotus blossom bowls, and shrooms. Overkill? Maybe. But see points 1-6 above. Oh, and see my opening sentence. I have a problem.

So that brings me to the Great Eldritch Kilt Debate. Tavernbane was the first ever UR token I purchased, in large part because of the fun I had with Harlax’s high HP build. And also because I was excited about the prospect of it getting even fancier if I managed to collect all three kilts and turn them into the eldritch kilt. That’s been my top collecting goal since I started playing. Right or wrong, naive or otherwise, I never imagined that “upgrading” to the cool green kilt would end up causing me to “downgrade” the stat I cared most about when I bought that first UR kilt. Best I can tell (in my admittedly limited experience), that has never been the case with any other transmuted token in TD history, be it relic, eldritch, or legendary. Of course there is a first time for everything, and maybe the original kilt design went too far and a correction is necessary. But for this confessed HP addict, taking any HP hit to make the eldritch kilt just won’t feel good. Certainly takes some of the excitement out of actually transmuting my first eldritch item. Shouldn’t building eldritch items be unequivocally positive? For the good of the game to promote maximum collecting and transmuting?

(Now as I said elsewhere, if folks are worried about +6 str or dex on the green kilt, go with something like +4 to one stat and +5 hp. That would be fine with me. Just keep your hands off my HP! Gotta have my fix! )

The first ones free, man.

Adam Guay wrote: The hit to the hp is small and can be mitigated. I'm more concerned about the loss of the uber healing that use to keep us going without consumables. Add to that the cost of using the wands as backup and it's starting to get pricey.

It does help that we are getting the tome to bump our damage up a little but I'm interested in seeing where the loss of spell resistance will take us going forward.

The going back on the way that Lesser Maze works changes things too. After the first run through N1 at origins they realized there was a problem when I mazed the ogre mage three times in a row using maze, spelll storing, and crown of expertise. Their answer to it was to give him spell immunity which later changed at Gen Con.

We've been nerfed quite a bit both at hp and capability.

I was either on that run or one just like it - just nerfed that combat.

I don't think we will see spell resistance - we could see spell immunity to avoid broken combats but I suspect it would be rare.

Ed

I hope so Ed..... that was easily the most changed room going from origins to gen con.

We probably do need to see an official statement about the "new" rules again for lesser maze and timing after the changes.

Adam Guay wrote: We probably do need to see an official statement about the "new" rules again for lesser maze and timing after the changes.

Honestly the next time we reprint the cards I think maze needs to just be replaced with something else entirely. This is far from the first time it has caused trouble.

I'm afraid I'm starting to come down with this affliction. Tavernbane is also one of my few URs, and to be honest I traded for it in part because of the name (Dwarf fighter who dual wields Mugs, seems an appropriate bane to taverns) I was rather amazed by the sudden HP jump. I already liked the Retribution damage builds, and now it has got me thinking of starting to tank my AC even a bit more so when I taunt I do get hit, trying to replace it with HP instead, Maybe even going for the uncommon Abyssal Lenses of Taunting. Trick is keeping my reflex saves up though.

Aren't there figurines that boost your reflex saves without affecting dex?