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TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images!

2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #301

Matthew Galambus wrote: In terms of the bead's transmute cost. Everyone keeps bringing up the cost of monster bits, but Jeff mentions a requirement of participation tokens.

Was he perhaps referring to the UC/Rare completion tokens freely given at the end instead of the proposed monster bits? I don't consider monster bits as participation as you are not actually guaranteed them; also we typically we don't see a transmute cost needing year X's monster bits until year X+1. So this would mean that the monster bit transmute (similar to Icecrag) would be for 2020 transmuting?

So instead this year we have a bead token that follow similar to the Ring of Heroism transmute?

Regardless, thankfully I started playing at the start of this story arc.


Wow, that would be pretty devastating if it's participation tokens instead of monster ingredient tokens. People have been saving monster ingredient tokens for this story arc token, which in the past has always been monster ingredient tokens. I hope Jeff just accidentally typed participation instead of monster ingredient.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #302

jedibcg wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: Just out of curiosity...

the Icecrag was three years of monster bits. Any idea as to why the bead will be four? Seems about the same strength as the Icecrag, if not a little worse. Regeneration is strong. :)


It is 4 because the current story arc is 4 years. Some would argue +2 to all Saves is more more powerful than +1 Regen a room.


I suspect the Rothfus adventures were in effect a side quest that delayed Jeff's plans for the story arc, but that totally unsubstanchated.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Galambus wrote: In terms of the bead's transmute cost. Everyone keeps bringing up the cost of monster bits, but Jeff mentions a requirement of participation tokens.

Was he perhaps referring to the UC/Rare completion tokens freely given at the end instead of the proposed monster bits? I don't consider monster bits as participation as you are not actually guaranteed them; also we typically we don't see a transmute cost needing year X's monster bits until year X+1. So this would mean that the monster bit transmute (similar to Icecrag) would be for 2020 transmuting?

So instead this year we have a bead token that follow similar to the Ring of Heroism transmute?

Regardless, thankfully I started playing at the start of this story arc.


Wow, that would be pretty devastating if it's participation tokens instead of monster ingredient tokens. People have been saving monster ingredient tokens for this story arc token, which in the past has always been monster ingredient tokens. I hope Jeff just accidentally typed participation instead of monster ingredient.


Agreed, that would be a departure from president. I hope we get a completion token transmute again at some point but I also hope we are told about it. Most of my completion tokens have been either traded or transmuted at this point.
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Last edit: by Picc.

2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #303

Picc wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: Just out of curiosity...

the Icecrag was three years of monster bits. Any idea as to why the bead will be four? Seems about the same strength as the Icecrag, if not a little worse. Regeneration is strong. :)


It is 4 because the current story arc is 4 years. Some would argue +2 to all Saves is more more powerful than +1 Regen a room.


I suspect the Rothfus adventures were in effect a side quest that delayed Jeff's plans for the story arc, but that totally unsubstanchated.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Galambus wrote: In terms of the bead's transmute cost. Everyone keeps bringing up the cost of monster bits, but Jeff mentions a requirement of participation tokens.

Was he perhaps referring to the UC/Rare completion tokens freely given at the end instead of the proposed monster bits? I don't consider monster bits as participation as you are not actually guaranteed them; also we typically we don't see a transmute cost needing year X's monster bits until year X+1. So this would mean that the monster bit transmute (similar to Icecrag) would be for 2020 transmuting?

So instead this year we have a bead token that follow similar to the Ring of Heroism transmute?

Regardless, thankfully I started playing at the start of this story arc.


Wow, that would be pretty devastating if it's participation tokens instead of monster ingredient tokens. People have been saving monster ingredient tokens for this story arc token, which in the past has always been monster ingredient tokens. I hope Jeff just accidentally typed participation instead of monster ingredient.


Agreed, that would be a departure from president. I hope we get a completion token transmute again at some point but I also hope we are told about it. Most of my completion tokens have been either traded or transmuted at this point.


My thoughts exactly. We knew ahead of time about the Ring of Heroism, and had time to save up all three years of participation tokens.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #304

Hi Jeff,

Here are some comments on the transmuted tokens, thanks for letting us provide input!

Figurine of Power: Dog - I like that it now only works for those classes that can already heal others.

Canteen of Quaffing - a nice slotless token that will hopefully encourage more potion usage. It does combine nicely with Mad Evoker's Charm and Potion of Distilled Healing.

Enchanter's Whetstone - I think this actually brings rare weapons up to UR, since the difference is often just +1 to hit and +1 damage. Being slotless I think it could really undercut UR weapons, I hope the transmute cost is about the cost of a PYP. If this stays as-is, I'm considering going away from UR weapons for most of the group and going to rares plus this. I'd recommend only having it give +1 damage or +1 to hit, that would put it between Rares and URs. Or, leave it at +1 to both but have it take a slot. Newer players usually have unused Ioun Stone, Charm, and Earcuff slots.

Charm of Treasure Finding - Jeff, I think you might really be hurting token sales with this one, I'd recommend you drop it. If you allow people with no UR TE tokens to transmute this for less than a PYP, why would they ever buy tokens to get a UR TE Ioun Stone (which is all they will have available for the next four years). They would be paying True Dungeon $250 for no TE gain at all. You might be undercutting the biggest UR driver for token sales. You are offering both this and the Ioun Stone Golden Nugget this year, both with the exact same +2 Token pulls - for players without either most are going to choose this cheaper transmute than sending $250 to True Dungeon for the UR. And I'm sure token stores will transmute tons of these and they will be readily available to new players at a lower than PYP cost without the new players having to make any True Dungeon token purchases at all. I'd recommend keeping the low-cost TE tokens capped at +1.

Belt of Ogre Mage Power: I hope the transmute cost for this is equal to a UR, because this is equal to the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength, which for a long time was the top UR. I think there is a very risky trend with these transmutes, you have three (this, Charm of Treasure Finding, and Enchanters Wetstone) that duplicate UR tokens, and I think that has a very real danger of reducing True Dungeon token sales revenue. I'd much rather see transmutes that do new things than duplicate URs at a lower price.

Bead of the Lucky Traveler - Jeff, I really like this, it's a great Story Arc token.

Kilt of the Dungeonbane - I think that this needs to have a bonus equal to the bonus on the UR's, minus the negatives, like the Redoubt Set did. The UR components shouldn't be preferable in some cases to the end transmute. So, I think it should be +6 to any of the three. Another option would be to lower the UR bonus this year (I'd recommend no lower than +5) and adjust this to match. So, in that case this would be +5 St OR +6 Dex OR +6 Con.

Lutes: I like this token, I hope an alternate recipe allows for the turn-in of the various component Bard URs, like the Charm of Avarice had.

Sneak Necklaces: Seems very good.

Shaman/Shaper Necklaces: I like these, although the UR might be preferable to the Relic because of the slot. I think the Air Elemental option should be able to hit flying creatures, since Air Elementals fly. I hope you can make that change.

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Last edit: by Mike Steele.

2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #305

I had a few new thoughts on the enchanters whetstone this morning. Let me start by saying that i really like it, it doesnt need major changes, just some clarifications so it does what is intended...

1. Should it specify melee weapons? Or is it also supposed to work for ranged?

2. Can it work with uncommon and common weapons also? I am not sure if this was left out because it is more difficult to phrase well or if there was a reason to exclude them.

3. I feel like there should be a concern about someone equipping this with a rare weapon and swapping to UR for advantage, or a ranger with something like +1 UR and this with +1 rare...but every example is comparable to something that can be done without the whetstone. It is already up to the player to not abuse weapon swapping.


Other items:
I halfway share mikes concern about the +2 treasure transmute. I could see it discouraging for a player to find out that buying an UR TE would not gain any bonus. But also think there should be that middle step to help lower level players. Could you make this transmute give +1 treasure to any one rare or UR treasure enhancer?
This will let rare players have +2 treasure, and buying an UR ioun stone they would only lose the rare, but not this, so they get to +3 treasure. If you limit this to not stack with more than 1 TE, the next ioun stone still gets them to +4.
One thing to be aware of is that this item would allow amulet of treasure finding to go up to +5...which i dont think is a problem. In fact, i wouldnt consider the +1 transmute to be a problem stacking with multiple URs until someone is equipping ALL of them...since you could actually equip the HoP, Ro$, CoGF, and both nuggets and get +1 over the max with this...so, the transmute definitely needs a limit to how many URs could stack. So, the easy solution is 'exactly 1'.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #306

Well, regarding the Wetstone, that plus a rare Longsword equals the UR +2 Longsword. That plus a mighty Sling equals the UR +1 Mighty Sling. It does seem like it really diminishes UR weapons, unless it has a hefty transmute cost (in the $100 range).


Your recommendation about the treasure transmute might work. If it added +1 Treasure Coins and could stack with no more than one other token, it might not be as big an impact on UR sales. It would give 2 pulls total when combined with a rare TE, but it would also give 3 pulls total when combined with Golden Nugget, so there would still be incentive to move to the UR.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #307

Mike Steele wrote: Well, regarding the Wetstone, that plus a rare Longsword equals the UR +2 Longsword. That plus a mighty Sling equals the UR +1 Mighty Sling. It does seem like it really diminishes UR weapons, unless it has a hefty transmute cost (in the $100 range).


Maybe compare some tokens that are in print? The +2 Death Flail, for example, is much better than the +1 Nether Flail plus Whetstone, (60 degree max damage arc vs 45, average damage 8 vs 7, and min damage 4 vs 3) even if you aren’t a Barbarian.
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Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.

2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #308

Matthew Galambus wrote: In terms of the bead's transmute cost. Everyone keeps bringing up the cost of monster bits, but Jeff mentions a requirement of participation tokens.

Was he perhaps referring to the UC/Rare completion tokens freely given at the end instead of the proposed monster bits? I don't consider monster bits as participation as you are not actually guaranteed them; also we typically we don't see a transmute cost needing year X's monster bits until year X+1. So this would mean that the monster bit transmute (similar to Icecrag) would be for 2020 transmuting?

So instead this year we have a bead token that follow similar to the Ring of Heroism transmute?

Regardless, thankfully I started playing at the start of this story arc.


He didn’t mention a requirement of participation tokens, he said it IS the 4-year story arc participation token. AKA the token you get for doing the 4 year story arc dungeons, which traditionally required monster bits from each year and were unique and powerful, like Icecrags and now the Lucky Bead.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #309

Phil Norton wrote:

Matthew Galambus wrote: In terms of the bead's transmute cost. Everyone keeps bringing up the cost of monster bits, but Jeff mentions a requirement of participation tokens.

Was he perhaps referring to the UC/Rare completion tokens freely given at the end instead of the proposed monster bits? I don't consider monster bits as participation as you are not actually guaranteed them; also we typically we don't see a transmute cost needing year X's monster bits until year X+1. So this would mean that the monster bit transmute (similar to Icecrag) would be for 2020 transmuting?

So instead this year we have a bead token that follow similar to the Ring of Heroism transmute?

Regardless, thankfully I started playing at the start of this story arc.


He didn’t mention a requirement of participation tokens, he said it IS the 4-year story arc participation token. AKA the token you get for doing the 4 year story arc dungeons, which traditionally required monster bits from each year and were unique and powerful, like Icecrags and now the Lucky Bead.


Phil, upon rereading it, I think you're correct.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #310

Apparently i picked the wrong time to go offline/fishing in the mountains. Just getting up to speed on new tokens.

Not liking the lucky bead, really doesn't feel like a payoff, especially if we're looking at 4 years/sets of bits. Really like to see +3 and some other bonus. I like the free movement as i can finally move off boots of marauder as a non eldritch UR player but there's other options.

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Starkhound (Edwin) wrote: Maybe a dumb question but I'm a bit confused. The Bead is the first of a 4 year arc or will take tokens from 4 years to make like completion or monster bits etc?


It takes four years of monster ingredient tokens to make it, with next year's monster ingredient tokens being the fourth year.


Which leads to this question. If 2019 monster bits are given out at Origins, can the transmute be done prior to GenCon 19? That would be a bummer for those who can not make Origins, but a boon to those who can.


Yes please to an early transmute window or even being able to send in post Origins/pre Gen Con.

Kilt i'm ambivalent on to be honest, eldritch means nothing to me as i fall into the gap now of having some UR's but not likely to ever enter relic/legendary/eldritch unless it's something tied to play/combo transmutes. I really liked being able to craft RoH and Icecrag, felt like i got something/rewarded for playing over the time period since i don't spend money like others around these parts. As someone who plays pugs and shifts around classes/builds i do like the +5 to benefit off odd stat and choose my own bonus for build.

Belt of mage ogre, seems good and fits under Stone Giant girdle nicely.

I really like the whetstone, I like mid range transmutes that reward other builds and can add up effects for the between rare/UR crowd.

Canteen, same reason as whetstone, it's a useful effect no matter if the user is using a common heal or a distilled healing.

I really like the idea of having the charm of treasure finding be a +1 to any treasure enhancer (errata of doesn't raise above cap). I didn't like and argued for having the rare TE's stack years ago and this is a chance to have that. If a player wants to use the slots for TE go for it at this point. Agree with Kent on having this be beneficial for players who make the jump from rare to UR TE. Again i like transmutes that help bridge the gap and reward playing/crafting tokens.

Love the idea of a reusable polymorph, rather see it at UR with the current UR pushed to rare if we're going to encourage polymorph builds.

Did i miss something on about Widseth's UR turning into this legendary?

Rogue, i don't play rogue, but seems odd but i guess i mentally think Bracers of guided strike was a token really designed for them last year.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 10 months 2 weeks ago #311

Matt wrote: Rogue, i don't play rogue, but seems odd but i guess i mentally think Bracers of guided strike was a token really designed for them last year.


It was kinda for us but the Dwarf fighter is where they really shine. I just dont think we'll truly apreshiste that until the next crit immune monster get batman v bane broken by a dwarf.
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