TOPIC: New Polymorph Item Discussion

Mike Steele wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Agree to disagree. Hopefully if Jeff does make a UR polymorph token it's in a reasonable slot and worth using.

So if I understood you correctly you said the Eye slot would make this unplayable for you. If I am right there, what other slots would you feel are off limits (i.e. what is reasonable)?

Ed

The main Druid slots already occupied to me are Dragonscale set and LoDS. I'd think figurine, ear, Ioun stone, wrist, hands, shirt, maybe charm all seem OK. Why purposely aim for a slot Druids already use?

To make druids choose if they want to be healers or poly build?

Honestly if a new poly item blocked LoDs I would argue for them to be that much stronger to make them a legit choice.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Aothos wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: I think (how it seems to me) that the disagreement on this stems from two different types of druid players: polymorph druids vs spell druids.

+1 Bump

Polymorph Items change the Build Focus, allowing for diversity in play styles.

Poly Druid is already a pretty standard build

Agree with Brad here. Poly Druid is pretty well defined. The mainhand slot here is set, as the Baton of Focus adds damage to polymorph damage as well.

I applaud Aothos's effort in trying to design a new non-consumable polymorph item. I just don't think main hand is where it should be.

Mike Steele wrote: The main Druid slots already occupied to me are Dragonscale set and LoDS. I'd think figurine, ear, Ioun stone, wrist, hands, shirt, maybe charm all seem OK. Why purposely aim for a slot Druids already use?

I agree to an extent, here. I would love to keep the Dragonscale bonus in tact. It was incredibly helpful in the Dungeon this year. I don't own Lenses of Divine Sight. I know that if I did already, I would probably not want to give up that slot either.

kurtreznor wrote: I own lenses of divine sight. My wife plays polymorph druid with coronet. She does NOT equip those lenses.

Re: your other post about limiting it too much. We want these limits so that it can be powerful. With no or small drawback, the damage wheel will suck. Which defeats the purpose. I think (how it seems to me) that the disagreement on this stems from two different types of druid players: polymorph druids vs spell druids. It seems like you are a spell druid that just wants a poweful weapon to use when spells arent a good option. Of course you dont want to give up any of your spell build, that is your primary focus. Those of us who enjoy polymorph are trying to design an item for our us, not you. Giving up spells works because it makes you choose where you want to focus. You can still dip into the other specialty a little bit, but you shouldnt get it at max power.

I agree with Kurtreznor. I would like a powerful damage wheel- but I believe the item needs to have a drawback in some shape or fashion to justify granting it a great wheel. It seems to make sense that if you're sliding, you're not casting. That's why I feel like the opportunity cost should be sacrificing spell slots. It's the same reason I think Shirt of the Fae is inferior to Shirt of Focus. I wanna slide 90% of the time and cast 10%.

If I had to choose between the Lenses and an eye-slotted Polymorph item (and both were in the 2019 collection) I'd choose the Polymorph item. Same reason - I want to slide more and cast less.

Assuming our hypothetical token gets designed, it'll be interesting to see where Jeff thinks it should be.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Aothos wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: I think (how it seems to me) that the disagreement on this stems from two different types of druid players: polymorph druids vs spell druids.

+1 Bump

Polymorph Items change the Build Focus, allowing for diversity in play styles.

Poly Druid is already a pretty standard build

I understand that Poly Druids are pretty standard, but not really sustainable for new or casual players. I also know that a lot of us on the forums are pretty decently equipped for the most part.
I'm just speaking on the accessibility of diversity. Right now I see the sustainable Poly Druid as difficult to access for the majority of players. A perfect example is the newest member of my play group (a Druid); He sees plenty of permanents that support Spell Druids, but doesn't want to burn money stockpiling poly potions. I'm encouraging a new Poly Permanent Token for the new players, so they have it as an option since the Coronets are fairly scarce.

Mike Steele wrote: Why purposely aim for a slot Druids already use?

I wasn't. I was trying to figure out which slots you feel would be acceptable.

But I concur with Picc's thoughts that the Druid should have to pick a build (Damage Spell, Healing Spell, or Poly) and be great at it and IF they try to do all three at the same time not be as good at them all as if they only picked one.

Ed

Aothos wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Aothos wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: I think (how it seems to me) that the disagreement on this stems from two different types of druid players: polymorph druids vs spell druids.

+1 Bump

Polymorph Items change the Build Focus, allowing for diversity in play styles.

Poly Druid is already a pretty standard build

I understand that Poly Druids are pretty standard, but not really sustainable for new or casual players. I also know that a lot of us on the forums are pretty decently equipped for the most part.
I'm just speaking on the accessibility of diversity. Right now I see the sustainable Poly Druid as difficult to access for the majority of players. A perfect example is the newest member of my play group (a Druid); He sees plenty of permanents that support Spell Druids, but doesn't want to burn money stockpiling poly potions. I'm encouraging a new Poly Permanent Token for the new players, so they have it as an option since the Coronets are fairly scarce.

The Asp potion is actually very cheap right now at $0.50 or so. Even with just a red build, you can get your damage modifier to be pretty strong. Get level 5 and then you have another +5 damage. Pants of Retrieval will probably be the best bet for potions and they're about $10.

When I picked up my cache of potions, Scrael was about a buck and a half and Giant Spider was even cheaper. You could pick up Asp for normal fights and utilize Giant Spider or Scrael for boss fights.

Long term investments would be a +3 Baton and a Shirt of Focus, which will boost damage even higher while also making your Druid a great complimentary healer to the Cleric.

TL;DR - I think that Polymorph Druid is very accessible to new players.

Arnold wrote: The Asp potion is actually very cheap right now at $0.50 or so. Even with just a red build, you can get your damage modifier to be pretty strong. Get level 5 and then you have another +5 damage. Pants of Retrieval will probably be the best bet for potions and they're about $10.

When I picked up my cache of potions, Scrael was about a buck and a half and Giant Spider was even cheaper. You could pick up Asp for normal fights and utilize Giant Spider or Scrael for boss fights.

Long term investments would be a +3 Baton and a Shirt of Focus, which will boost damage even higher while also making your Druid a great complimentary healer to the Cleric.

TL;DR - I think that Polymorph Druid is very accessible to new players.

Well said, and I agree. If there is ever a new Polymorph token to compliment or replace the Coronet of the Arch-Druid it is would likely be targeted at the Hardcore to Nightmare level player. We can try but we can't expect every UR that is produced to be instantly usable by a new player in every class.

Ed

Personally I'd love to see a rare level version of the Coronet of the Arch-Druid, I agree it isn't overly necessary given the number of current potions, but I think it would do a bit to make the poly build "feel" accessible to those who don't like using rare consumables. Something simple like

Coronet of the Regular-Druid, same damage wheel as a +1 bastard sword, Sacrifice a 1st level or higher spell to poly morph into a regular bear. Druid only.

Though granted that's an entirely separate discussion.

Mike Steele wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Agree to disagree. Hopefully if Jeff does make a UR polymorph token it's in a reasonable slot and worth using.

So if I understood you correctly you said the Eye slot would make this unplayable for you. If I am right there, what other slots would you feel are off limits (i.e. what is reasonable)?

Ed

The main Druid slots already occupied to me are Dragonscale set and LoDS. I'd think figurine, ear, Ioun stone, wrist, hands, shirt, maybe charm all seem OK. Why purposely aim for a slot Druids already use?

Well, I would say that some druids use Coronet, Crown of Expertise, or Crown of Elemental Mastery, Redoubt or Blessed Redoubt mail, and Shield of the Scholar rather than a Dragonscale set.

I agree most use LoDS at the higher builds, but of course not all.

Shirt seems pretty full with Shirt of the Fae or Shirt of Focus.

I think a figurine would make more sense as an animal companion rather than a polymorph token.

Wrist can be a go to.

Neck could be a fun place to put a powerful polymorph token for both druids and wizards. Medallion of the Mystic Mouth is going out of print.....

Thanks for all the good suggestions guys. I am thinking about it.

Thanks!

Jeff

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for all the good suggestions guys. I am thinking about it.

Thanks!

Jeff

The 2019 Token Development is officially underway!