TOPIC: New Polymorph Item Discussion

Maybe nerf the damage wheel a little bit and allow it to key off of level 1 and up spells?

Arnold wrote: I like the idea of designing the token in the back slot. It's a powerful slot with a lot of competition from a lot of other great tokens. Flavor wise, I think it's a home run. I'm picturing the druid waving his cape and spinning in a flurry as a creature emerges, ready for battle.

Thematically it makes sense but the back slot has been traditionally defense oriented.

Ed

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The reason for sacrifice would be so you could use it more than once per game, as you theoretically could with the coronet.

Agreed. Can’t eat your cake and have it too. If it’s to be usable every combat, there has to be some sacrifice. If there’s no sacrifice, it has to be once per game.

IMO, a min stat is not a sacrifice.

Brad, that's just an opinion of course. It certainly could allow polymorph more than once per game without a sacrifice if that's what Jeff decides. You are sacrificing the opportunity cost of whatever other token could have gone in that slot.

Yes, that’s what “IMO” means.

And obviously it’s all up to Jeff.

And I was specifically talking about the weapon option, and since they can be freely swapped, I see no “opportunity cost” for them.

Well, to be fair, IMO was only on the last sentence.

I agree not as much opportunity cost with weapons, which is why to me a slot like Figurine makes more sense.

This seems to be headed down a path where the end result isn't going to be anything I'm interested in, everyone seems to want to limit it to the point it will be like another Lifting Pack. Neat in theory, but not worth the slot.

MasterED wrote:

Arnold wrote: I like the idea of designing the token in the back slot. It's a powerful slot with a lot of competition from a lot of other great tokens. Flavor wise, I think it's a home run. I'm picturing the druid waving his cape and spinning in a flurry as a creature emerges, ready for battle.

Thematically it makes sense but the back slot has been traditionally defense oriented.

Ed

Touche, MasterEd.

But the head slot is also mostly defense oriented as well. The exceptions I can think of - Helm of the Eagle, Hood of Elvenkind, and of course - the Coronet.

Arnold wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Arnold wrote: I like the idea of designing the token in the back slot. It's a powerful slot with a lot of competition from a lot of other great tokens. Flavor wise, I think it's a home run. I'm picturing the druid waving his cape and spinning in a flurry as a creature emerges, ready for battle.

Thematically it makes sense but the back slot has been traditionally defense oriented.

Ed

Touche, MasterEd.

But the head slot is also mostly defense oriented as well. The exceptions I can think of - Helm of the Eagle, Hood of Elvenkind, and of course - the Coronet.

Actually since 2009 there have been offensive and defensive head items (besides the ones you mentioned):

Bliss Bull Helm (2018)
Circlet of Elemental Mastery (2009)/Crown of Elemental Mastery (2017)
Coronet of the Arch-Druid (2009)
Crown of Expertise (2018) - mostly used offensively but can be used defensively
Crown of Might (2009/2012)
Helm of the Boar (2009)
Twolf's Helm of the Wild (2013)

To me it would fit as a direct replacement of the Coronet of the Arch-Druid, but that is me.

Ed

Mike Steele wrote: I just don't get the desire to put this in the most contested spot for the Druid. It's like setting it up to fail. As much as I'd like a good permanent polymorph token (and I think it's needed to encourage more people to use polymorph), it's a very hard pass for me in the eye slot. The only token that might get me to switch out the Lenses of Divine Sight would be a treasure enhancing token.

I own lenses of divine sight. My wife plays polymorph druid with coronet. She does NOT equip those lenses.

Re: your other post about limiting it too much. We want these limits so that it can be powerful. With no or small drawback, the damage wheel will suck. Which defeats the purpose. I think (how it seems to me) that the disagreement on this stems from two different types of druid players: polymorph druids vs spell druids. It seems like you are a spell druid that just wants a poweful weapon to use when spells arent a good option. Of course you dont want to give up any of your spell build, that is your primary focus. Those of us who enjoy polymorph are trying to design an item for our us, not you. Giving up spells works because it makes you choose where you want to focus. You can still dip into the other specialty a little bit, but you shouldnt get it at max power.

Fiddy wrote: Is the intent that this can be re-used by virtue of a Crown of Expertise? Or by a Cleric using Restore Power?

Yes, this can add to the choices needing to be made on the fly in the dungeon. While at face value the item appears as once per game item, it has the potential to cover 3 combat rooms if the right preparations are made/ deals made.

Brad Mortensen wrote: This is already a UR weapon, so there’s that. The wheel is comparable to an uncommon polymorph, so I think those balance out.

Keep in mind also that this would open up a new play style for Druids, one geared towards combat instead of spell focused, so the build would be shifted too. So now a Druid could craft their build around a UR weapon.

Agree to disagree. Hopefully if Jeff does make a UR polymorph token it's in a reasonable slot and worth using.

kurtreznor wrote: I think (how it seems to me) that the disagreement on this stems from two different types of druid players: polymorph druids vs spell druids.

+1 Bump

Polymorph Items change the Build Focus, allowing for diversity in play styles.

Mike Steele wrote: Agree to disagree. Hopefully if Jeff does make a UR polymorph token it's in a reasonable slot and worth using.

So if I understood you correctly you said the Eye slot would make this unplayable for you. If I am right there, what other slots would you feel are off limits (i.e. what is reasonable)?

Ed

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Agree to disagree. Hopefully if Jeff does make a UR polymorph token it's in a reasonable slot and worth using.

So if I understood you correctly you said the Eye slot would make this unplayable for you. If I am right there, what other slots would you feel are off limits (i.e. what is reasonable)?

Ed

The main Druid slots already occupied to me are Dragonscale set and LoDS. I'd think figurine, ear, Ioun stone, wrist, hands, shirt, maybe charm all seem OK. Why purposely aim for a slot Druids already use?

Aothos wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: I think (how it seems to me) that the disagreement on this stems from two different types of druid players: polymorph druids vs spell druids.

+1 Bump

Polymorph Items change the Build Focus, allowing for diversity in play styles.

Poly Druid is already a pretty standard build