TOPIC: New Polymorph Item Discussion

Arnold wrote: We've totally hijacked this thread into a Polymorph discussion, but I thought it prudent to point out that wizards did not have access to the original Coronet.

I like the idea of Eye or Back slot.

Not so much Shirt or Mainhand.

We just got Shirt of the Fae and Shirt of Focus in back-to-back years, both of which are excellent for Poly-Druid builds. Would be a bummer to print something that takes the same slot so soon that would take the same slot.

As far as armor, I could understand why it might get printed there, but I love my Dragonscale set, so I'd probably stick to potions personally. Same reason the Coronet was cut off from me, actually.

Hey everyone, I'm pulling the thread over here since we hijacked a preexisting thread.

A version of the Dire Bat's Cloak and Owl's Vision Goggles may be coming along soon if I have time.

Here is the modified version of the +2 BearClaws based on the Community's feedback thus far.

If it is a +2 weapon, that means your base damage wheel is 2-8. It should probably be based on 1-8.

Is the intent that this can be re-used by virtue of a Crown of Expertise? Or by a Cleric using Restore Power?

Aothos wrote:

Arnold wrote: We've totally hijacked this thread into a Polymorph discussion, but I thought it prudent to point out that wizards did not have access to the original Coronet.

I like the idea of Eye or Back slot.

Not so much Shirt or Mainhand.

We just got Shirt of the Fae and Shirt of Focus in back-to-back years, both of which are excellent for Poly-Druid builds. Would be a bummer to print something that takes the same slot so soon that would take the same slot.

As far as armor, I could understand why it might get printed there, but I love my Dragonscale set, so I'd probably stick to potions personally. Same reason the Coronet was cut off from me, actually.

Hey everyone, I'm pulling the thread over here since we hijacked a preexisting thread.

A version of the Dire Bat's Cloak and Owl's Vision Goggles may be coming along soon if I have time.

Here is the modified version of the +2 BearClaws based on the Community's feedback thus far.

Well, based on my feedback you wouldn't be sacrificing Power Surge for it. As much as I'd like an improved version of the Coronet, I won't use something which requires sacrificing power surge or spells. I prefer having a WIS requirement. And hopefully not in a slot occupied by the Dragonscale set or Lenses of Divine Sight.

I think making choices is a good thing.

Spell surge is a powerful thing for any druid.

A reusable polymorph is a powerful thing.

Sacrificing one for the other seems acceptable to me.

A wisdom requirement that also allows lenses of divine sight feels like too easy of a requirement to meet.

Perhaps we keep the wisdom requirement, but it goes in the eye slot?

Also, we have to remember wizards, who probably dont want to equip charm of enlightenment.

Spells are the thing the 2 classes have in common.

Maybe sacrificing 2 first level spells?

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I think making choices is a good thing.

Spell surge is a powerful thing for any druid.

A reusable polymorph is a powerful thing.

Sacrificing one for the other seems acceptable to me.

A wisdom requirement that also allows lenses of divine sight feels like too easy of a requirement to meet.

Perhaps we keep the wisdom requirement, but it goes in the eye slot?

Also, we have to remember wizards, who probably dont want to equip charm of enlightenment.

Spells are the thing the 2 classes have in common.

Maybe sacrificing 2 first level spells?

If a potentially powerful polymorph item was balanced with a wis requirement, I would be ok with it being in the eye slot (eyes of the beast/eye of the tiger/eagle eyes/etc) specifically so druids would have to choose if they were building for healing or polymorph dps.

We seem to have a design pattern that says a permanent token that duplicates the effect of a rare consumable should be limited to once per game, if it has no other effect.

This is already a UR weapon, so there’s that. The wheel is comparable to an uncommon polymorph, so I think those balance out.

I hate the idea of WIS requirement. When Wild Vestments was reprinted as Shirt of the Fae, it was opened to every class. I see me reason to lock wizards out of this one.

But with all that, I don’t think it needs a sacrifice of surge or spell anyway, nor a min stat. Just limit it to one poly per game, as a free action. (D/W only)

Brad Mortensen wrote: We seem to have a design pattern that says a permanent token that duplicates the effect of a rare consumable should be limited to once per game, if it has no other effect.

This is already a UR weapon, so there’s that. The wheel is comparable to an uncommon polymorph, so I think those balance out.

I hate the idea of WIS requirement, because it locks out wizards.

But with all that, I don’t think it needs a sacrifice of surge or spell anyway, nor a min stat. Just limit it to one poly per game, as a free action. (D/W only)

I think there are several ideas being fleshed out here.

The weapon was one idea, though may not be the best because it is difficult to balance, etc.

I LOVE eyes of the tiger. Just too amazing for words. Will there be copyright/whatever other legal issues?

I think a cloak makes a lot of sense, and it could include a built in leading attack power. Cloak of the Eagle, etc.

The reason for sacrifice would be so you could use it more than once per game, as you theoretically could with the coronet.

Would we see play from a UR non-weapon in some other slot?

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The reason for sacrifice would be so you could use it more than once per game, as you theoretically could with the coronet.

Agreed. Can’t eat your cake and have it too. If it’s to be usable every combat, there has to be some sacrifice. If there’s no sacrifice, it has to be once per game.

IMO, a min stat is not a sacrifice.

I just don't get the desire to put this in the most contested spot for the Druid. It's like setting it up to fail. As much as I'd like a good permanent polymorph token (and I think it's needed to encourage more people to use polymorph), it's a very hard pass for me in the eye slot. The only token that might get me to switch out the Lenses of Divine Sight would be a treasure enhancing token.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The reason for sacrifice would be so you could use it more than once per game, as you theoretically could with the coronet.

Agreed. Can’t eat your cake and have it too. If it’s to be usable every combat, there has to be some sacrifice. If there’s no sacrifice, it has to be once per game.

IMO, a min stat is not a sacrifice.

Brad, that's just an opinion of course. It certainly could allow polymorph more than once per game without a sacrifice if that's what Jeff decides. You are sacrificing the opportunity cost of whatever other token could have gone in that slot.

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The reason for sacrifice would be so you could use it more than once per game, as you theoretically could with the coronet.

Agreed. Can’t eat your cake and have it too. If it’s to be usable every combat, there has to be some sacrifice. If there’s no sacrifice, it has to be once per game.

IMO, a min stat is not a sacrifice.

Brad, that's just an opinion of course. It certainly could allow polymorph more than once per game without a sacrifice if that's what Jeff decides. You are sacrificing the opportunity cost of whatever other token could have gone in that slot.

Yes, that’s what “IMO” means.

And obviously it’s all up to Jeff.

And I was specifically talking about the weapon option, and since they can be freely swapped, I see no “opportunity cost” for them.

I don't own a LoDS, so it would be an easy choice for me.

As far as sacrificing spell slots, I think it was a fair way to design the Coronet originally. Part of the appeal of a very powerful damage wheel is that you sacrifice some of your offensive spell power. It makes a lot of sense.

I saw Kurt mention keying the new poly item off of level 1 spells so you could run it concurrently with the Coronet. That makes sense for folks who would own both, but it seems that at least some of this discussion is targeted towards helping individuals who do not own the Coronet. I would hope that the damage wheel on any new possible polymorph token is not nerfed because it keyed off of just level 1 spells.

At the same time, sacrificing Spell Surge would only allow one use of the item. It would require that you walk up to the DM to get your card marked off before you slide. Eats more time. I'm not extremely versed on what powers the Cleric can restore, but I wouldn't expect him/her to use his/her action to trigger the item again. The Crown of Expertise is an option, but then the damage wheel would have to be amazing enough to warrant locking 2 slots for 2 uses.

I like the idea of designing the token in the back slot. It's a powerful slot with a lot of competition from a lot of other great tokens. Flavor wise, I think it's a home run. I'm picturing the druid waving his cape and spinning in a flurry as a creature emerges, ready for battle.