TOPIC: 2019 Volunteer & Other Special Token Suggestions

The str/dex/con cycle is a bit of a snooze fest for me.

I like the ideas mentioned above like a +1/2 focus charm, and or a +1/2 saves charm.

Does the +1/+2 Focus charm have enough of a need that it will help drive volunteers?

I think whatever we do needs to help increase volunteer rolls.

Fiddy wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Picc wrote:

Fiddy wrote: We already know that it is planned that there will be a +2 treasure Ioun Stone this year. I strongly suggest against releasing a volunteer token that also increases treasure at the same time.

Not disagreeing yet, but whats your reasoning for why?

Just guessing, but it probably has to do with widening the gap between the casual player and the veteran even further.

3 to 19 is bad enough, 3 to 21 (guaranteed to come) is worse, 3 to 23 is simply worse still.

Yep, that was my thinking. We know the gap is going to continue to grow. But accelerating that growth seems like a bad idea to me.

Not when you pull 13 rates, 3 uncommon and a few monster bits...

At least you can build some aragonite

Because of Nuggets, I thought we’d avoid the loot debate for the next three years...

Everyone knows I love TD, right? Played for ten, volunteered for eight, the last four (?) full-time. Just throwing that out there, because the rest of this might sound harsh.

The ticket price increase this year was brutal. Yes, it still sold out. But I played with some players who gave it a chance this year but thought that, as awesome as the sets and costumes were, the event just wasn’t worth it. Others thought it was worth every penny. What will happen next year?Time will tell.

I sponsored a newbie run this year. (I paid for tickets and kept the treasure chips, they kept the rest.) Everyone loved it. ALL of them said that the only way they’d play again was under the same arrangement, because it was too expensive. Oh, and that was at Origins prices.

But here’s the thing: veterans think it’s worth it because we can get a stack of treasure to mitigate the cost. Newbies don’t. So raising the loot cap, IMO, coupled with the rising ticket prices, is skewing the player base. I have the sense (no data) that vets are buying a higher proportion of the tickets. Fewer newbies means there’s a short bench to replace us when we retire.

I just have conversations with people along the spectrum to go by, but honestly, I’d rather see everyone get six chips instead of three than to see another effing URTE. They’re blinding us to the (alleged) fact that greed is killing the game.

And yes, I know the argument well: TEs drive token sales. But, that’s probably not our biggest problem right now. Doing four conventions means we have to attract and keep lots of new players to sell all those tickets, and I just don’t know if that’s happening. (Yes, there are some, but is it enough? There’s a big supply of TD now, so to speak, and we need demand from new players to help soak it up.) And no newbies means flat or shrinking token sales, no matter how many TEs you print. All I know is my ambassadorial efforts failed.

All IMO, of course.

I agree with Brad.
I also buy out as many of one slot for each dungeon so that casual friends can join the group later.

This year, the cost prevented some returning players from playing in all three dungeons, and I've heard they may not be returning in future years due to the cost of the ticket.

I also failed in being an ambassador for TD this year.

My three runs had fewer new people, and that is sad.

With that said, tickets at other conventions than GenCon are a lot less expensive, and I've seen a lot of new players at those events.
This means that maybe only the new players are being priced out at GenCon. I'm still concerned, but TD's ticket sales at other conventions is likely still healthy.

I would love to see a Charm of Charisma at some point.

Stats/Abilities that every class benefits from (left off STR because although each class can use it not everyone is melee):

• CON (Fort/HP)
• DEX (Reflex/AC)
• HP
• Saves
• TE
• Damage Resistances
• WIS (Will)
• Abilities like Freedom of Movement
• Straight Heal/Damage Bump

Any I am missing?

Ed

Brad Mortensen wrote: Because of Nuggets, I thought we’d avoid the loot debate for the next three years...

Everyone knows I love TD, right? Played for ten, volunteered for eight, the last four (?) full-time. Just throwing that out there, because the rest of this might sound harsh.

The ticket price increase this year was brutal. Yes, it still sold out. But I played with some players who gave it a chance this year but thought that, as awesome as the sets and costumes were, the event just wasn’t worth it. Others thought it was worth every penny. What will happen next year?Time will tell.

I sponsored a newbie run this year. (I paid for tickets and kept the treasure chips, they kept the rest.) Everyone loved it. ALL of them said that the only way they’d play again was under the same arrangement, because it was too expensive. Oh, and that was at Origins prices.

But here’s the thing: veterans think it’s worth it because we can get a stack of treasure to mitigate the cost. Newbies don’t. So raising the loot cap, IMO, coupled with the rising ticket prices, is skewing the player base. I have the sense (no data) that vets are buying a higher proportion of the tickets. Fewer newbies means there’s a short bench to replace us when we retire.

I just have conversations with people along the spectrum to go by, but honestly, I’d rather see everyone get six chips instead of three than to see another effing URTE. They’re blinding us to the (alleged) fact that greed is killing the game.

And yes, I know the argument well: TEs drive token sales. But, that’s probably not our biggest problem right now. Doing four conventions means we have to attract and keep lots of new players to sell all those tickets, and I just don’t know if that’s happening. (Yes, there are some, but is it enough? There’s a big supply of TD now, so to speak, and we need demand from new players to help soak it up.) And no newbies means flat or shrinking token sales, no matter how many TEs you print. All I know is my ambassadorial efforts failed.

All IMO, of course.

Brad, I understand your position, heck I agree with most of it. Several people expressed the same concerns about cost to me this year. And ya part of the reason I can still justify as many runs as I do (4 at gencon) is because I supplement with treasure. heck I have a raise the floor treasure idea in the common thread right now. But what does it have to do with attracting volunteers? We are already at the point of there being to much treasure. Even if we could go back I doubt it would affect the price of tickets. We're on this course so IMO we might as well make the best of it and try to leverage some more volunteers.

@Picc - my point was that everything we do to raise the treasure cap just makes it worse. Encouraging vets to buy out tickets because they can subsidize their tickets squeezes out the newbies who can’t. And without newbies, token sales and TD withers and dies.

I have nothing against volunteers. I am one. If you were to soulbind the VTEs and NOT give them to GT runners (again, I usually am one of these, too) then maybe okay. But I’m not in charge.

It’s getting to the point that only vets can afford to play, and we can only afford it because of URTEs. I think that’s a bad thing.

If we price out the newbies we won’t need so many volunteers anyway.

A couple of points;

1. I like the idea of volunteer treasure in answers.

2. Jeff is already doing a good job of slowly closing the gap of treasure enhancers. Currently there are two rare treasure enhancers in the marketplace. I don’t know if he will continue with those but that is one way to kind of close the gap at a lower price.

3. I think treasure enhancers would encourage newer folks to volunteer who would like to close that gap and give them the opportunity to do so.

I also like the idea of boosting stats but my charm slots are so tight right now I’ve got several of that I’d like to swap in

Brad Mortensen wrote: @Picc - my point was that everything we do to raise the treasure cap just makes it worse.

That doesn't necessarily follow; I agree we need to be very careful with how we manage treasure form here out. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't also acknowledge it as the powerful motivator is it and make use of it strategically.

Will someone joining today ever have the same treasure cap as someone who's been here since day one or spent a fortune. No probably not, but IMO it’s not a matter of closing the gap between the old haves and the new have not’s at this point. It’s more about making sure that the new have not’s are given the same chance at treasure enhancers we are so the gap doesn’t grow.

That said, from what I've observed interest in the +dex/+con charms is low, which will probably translate into some number less volunteers (We already ran short on vols to make N1 happen at GHC with the str charm on offer). Something like Treasure on the other hand would definitely prompt more interest.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Encouraging vets to buy out tickets because they can subsidize their tickets squeezes out the newbies who can’t. And without newbies, token sales and TD withers and dies.

I think this is where we differ.I don't actually believe that newbies are being squeezed out or that vets are buying out runs because treasure is such an attractive value proposition. At least not yet, not at gencon anyway. GHC rarely sells out, and while I cant speak for Origins or Pax having never been to either of those I imagine its the same. From my experence a fairly large number of the people coming through my coaching room every year are new anyway.

Brad Mortensen wrote: I have nothing against volunteers. I am one. If you were to soulbind the VTEs and NOT give them to GT runners (again, I usually am one of these, too) then maybe okay. But I’m not in charge.

It’s getting to the point that only vets can afford to play, and we can only afford it because of URTEs. I think that’s a bad thing.

If we price out the newbies we won’t need so many volunteers anyway.

I think those concerns are entirely separate from the max treasure levels (which I fully grant is high). Even with Max treasure $78 is a big price tag, but I also think we have better controls with which to address it. Other cons offer cheaper ticket, and this years sealed run was offered at a discounted price (Lets be honest the 16 treasure chips that separate a COA carrying lv 6 repeat customer from a total newbie are not worth the $30 price difference between Viper and the N series).

End of the day, I'm normally against new TEs, but in this case I think the good out weighs the harm.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Does the +1/+2 Focus charm have enough of a need that it will help drive volunteers?

I think whatever we do needs to help increase volunteer rolls.

I strongly suspect there would be more demand for a +2 focus charm than a +2 dex charm.

Only one way to tell!