TOPIC: I think we have a problem

Rebeg wrote: You can set up a person sitting at a card table with a box or two for the pulls. Do I really need to buy a T-shirt between runs, this years mug/glass or any other novelty item as a souvenir between my runs? No. It's items like that - that can be moved across the street if you set up a True Tavern for the players.

Remember what happened to the Tavern in 2009 when the Tavern wasn't in the room after your treasure pulls? It was nearly empty most of the time.

Dedicated nightmare didn't work because newbies didn't know what it meant.

Dedicated newbie runs would stand a better chance. Make the rule "4 treasure max," so they can use their lenses, and I think you solve most of the problem for newbies. Veterans could still play if they wanted to help the newbies.

Possibly the simplest way would be to have sealed run tickets, replacing non-lethal runs. These are only what you pull out of your bag, and be geared to the new/intro players but could also include the TD player that wants a challenge to play again. No 5th level characters, nothing out of your stash of tokens.

If you get the puzzles right, you still get a stamp but it means that instead the end boss is easier to defeat for each stamp you get.

Lastly instead of traditional treasure pulls they can get pulls from one of 3 different boxes that have 99% rare tokens 1% ultra rares.

One box for weapons, second for armor and third everything else.

I can not tell you how many times I would see someone come out of a run looking for a +1 armor or weapon, because they just had a basic to start with.

This would get them into the game to begin with, and maybe not make them feel so bad the next time they run through, even if it is with more experienced players

If Walt Disney World taught me anything, it's to have every attraction exit into a gift shop.

The placement of the treasure boxes next to the store is likely a deliberate business decision. The end of TD is right next to the store. The only suggestion I would make in that regard is to have more of the merchandise on display. The store looked like they didn't have anything in stock.

Packs of tokens should be on a shelf at the back wall in plain sight, t-shirts should be pinned up on the back curtain with large price tag. Pins, glasses, and other memorabilia should be displayed somewhere.

Of course, security of product out in the open and close to the exit of the hall like that becomes an issue, and I only saw one, maybe two people manning the store at any given time. If people don't see something exists for them to buy, they aren't likely to buy it, however. Disconnecting the store from the dungeon would practically guarantee zero sales of merchandise, because people tie the merchandise to the thrill of the attraction, and are more willing to part with their money over memorabilia when they feel good about what they just experienced.

Back to the OP topic, though...

I went on the final Underdark combat run on Saturday night. The group was four who had never done it before and five where this was their second time ever playing (their first being Sable puzzle on Friday). Tokens were very limited, but I had a ton of uncommon and a few rares on hand that I gave away so that they would have some better equipment. I loaned out two of my purple weapons specifically because it was combat and there were very few good weapons in the mix (one or two reds, most common). We got through to the end but the Flayer won due to time.

I did my best to rally them for a good time, and at the end they all said it was probably the most fun they'd had the entire con. It also helps that I'm a fairly good entertainer and was born to play bard class.

My takeaway was this: I had a blast, they had a blast. I wouldn't mind doing it again, but I'm going to be proactive with my token build and assemble a sub-optimal selection, so as to be on a more or less even footing should it be a group of newbies. Odds are it will be a Normal run, and I have a good idea how I should be equipped for Normal now.

In other words, having invested more of my time and money into TD, I feel it is on me to adjust to those blind runs and be prepared for Normal, just like I try to prepare for Hardcore or Nightmare. Having the app helps with this, since I can keep a bunch of builds on hand for the coaching room and I like the idea of building different sets for different difficulties. It's much easier and cheaper to prepare for Normal than it is for Nightmare. If I get a blind run, I'll be sure to bring some green and red tokens that I don't use and have multiples of to spread out among the rest of the players. Particularly armor, shields, and weapons, but also some class specific stuff. Our monk was using bare fists, for example.

Newbies who don't want to run with overpowered people with tokens have the same options as veterns that don't want to run with randomized newbies. Buy out an entire slot and fill it yourself or jump into someone else's slot with the understanding that there is a token limit. This is something people will just have to do for themselves. Everyone's definition of 'fun' is different and no one's fun is more valid than anyone else's. If you want your own 'fun' then take responsibility for it.

"Let them eat cake," eh?

No newbie is going to spend $520 to buy out a run for a game they never played and don't even know if they'll like, to solve a problem they don't yet know exists. Nor should we expect them to.

George wrote: Fiddy,
The big issue with pre-selling runs is that GenCon does not like it at all. GenCon's whole philosophy is that you buy tickets for all events at GenCon from them using their system which they try to make as fair as possible (using their definition of "Fair".)

Jeff has spent years getting a VERY limited exemption to that rule. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that he is going to be able to get a larger exemption.

I have heard this is an issue but I saw someone who was selling tickets to an event but you had to contribute via kickstarter. So by pledging a certain amount on kickstarter it guaranteed a spot in the event. Here is a link to the post:

community.gencon.com/forums/t/35886.aspx

So it seems there are some ways around this.

Matthew Naikelis wrote:

George wrote: Fiddy,
The big issue with pre-selling runs is that GenCon does not like it at all. GenCon's whole philosophy is that you buy tickets for all events at GenCon from them using their system which they try to make as fair as possible (using their definition of "Fair".)

Jeff has spent years getting a VERY limited exemption to that rule. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that he is going to be able to get a larger exemption.

I have heard this is an issue but I saw someone who was selling tickets to an event but you had to contribute via kickstarter. So by pledging a certain amount on kickstarter it guaranteed a spot in the event. Here is a link to the post:

community.gencon.com/forums/t/35886.aspx

So it seems there are some ways around this.

kickstarter takes 10% as well..plus gencons cut...it will cause prices to go even higher

Rather than staggering party start times, perhaps the start times could be adjusted so that two or three runs start at the same time and players can be directed to go to room 1 and 2 for normal difficulty and room 3 for non-normal (hardcore or nightmare as determined by the party). The non-normal party should be ready to start first and the other parties would follow when ready.

Admittedly, this will not completely solve the issued of mixed parties but it would require very little adjustment to the overall system while providing previous players a chance try something harder and helping ensure new players run with their peers.

Worst case scenario, room 3 (non-normal difficulty) does not reach capacity and new players would be placed with the party thus necessitating a normal run (what currently happens now).

We will always have new players and regulars playing mixed in parties. I think we just need to emphasize here on the forums that we all need to treat the new players we share runs with as best we can. The game needs fresh blood to stay alive, so making sure they enjoy the runs is imperative. If veteran players don't want to do this, they should be the ones buying out runs.

balthasar wrote: We will always have new players and regulars playing mixed in parties. I think we just need to emphasize here on the forums that we all need to treat the new players we share runs with as best we can. The game needs fresh blood to stay alive, so making sure they enjoy the runs is imperative. If veteran players don't want to do this, they should be the ones buying out runs.

as a coach i try to stress that as well before they go off to training...all we can do is keep trying

balthasar wrote: We will always have new players and regulars playing mixed in parties. I think we just need to emphasize here on the forums that we all need to treat the new players we share runs with as best we can. The game needs fresh blood to stay alive, so making sure they enjoy the runs is imperative. If veteran players don't want to do this, they should be the ones buying out runs.

I totally agree with this. If we want the game to continue and thrive, then as veteran players we need to play our part in making the experience enjoyable for new players. I've been talking to more people the past couple of days who ran TD for the first time and most bad experiences had nothing to do with the dungeon, but rather with the behavior of other people in their group.

One friend said the cleric in their group refused to heal anyone other than his friends. As a result her husband died in room 6, her daughter was in near tears when she got to 1 hp and was refused healing and the entire party died in room 7.