TOPIC: Player level issues (benefits, confusion, etc.)

Not sure which forum to post this topic in, but I'll put it here for maximum exposure.

I've noticed a LOT of problems with the Player Level system, as it currently stands.

First, there's a lot of confusion between Player Level and Character level (We play 4th or 5th level characters, but we can be anything from 1st level players to 9th level players).

And then there's the benefits from the (player) levels.

They are out of date, some are no longer applicable, they are hard to track, and they are poorly enforced (with people claiming to be 6th level in order to get the bonus treasure chip, but not showing any proof)

Basically, the system needs an overhaul.

I have a (possibly radical?) idea:

Separate Character Level and Player Level by calling the player level "RANK"

We've already got an XP list which is effectively a LeaderBoard. Just call it what it is. Then let people have "Rank" benefits. Re-do the whole benefits list so it is relevant.

Then go through the XP lists (after providing an opportunity for players to write in and get XP errors corrected!) and assign the new benefits based on the new rank system.

For example:

Rank 1: Congrats, you've played True Dungeon. We hope you come back!
Rank 2: You get to choose your class before Rank 1 players
Rank 3: (insert benefit here)
Rank 4: (insert benefit here)
Rank 5: You get a token proving your Rank, and get 1 extra treasure chip.
Rank 6: Maybe this is where you get Lords&Ladies access on the Forum.
Rank 7: "Epic Level" badge holder
Rank 8: 8th level pin
Rank 9: (insert benefit here)
Rank 10: You get another token proving your Rank; Now you get 2 extra treasure chips.
Rank 11: (insert benefit here)

Changing the name from "player level" to "rank" reduces confusion, and provides an opportunity to re-think the benefits.

Benefits should remain out-of-game (so no +1 to hit, or tokens which affect in-game stats) and not be dependent on other TD events (free Tavern access, True Arena's presence, etc.) There's LOTS of possible benefits to Rank which can be kept out of game - everything from cool trinkets (like the 8th level pin) to early access for Transmuting, to being allowed to participate in an online Auction. Maybe even having your name put into a draw for some cool item. So long as the benefits are sustainable, and can be tracked, and don't involve mucking around with having to prove your Rank. (At least, not often. Just for bonus Treasure chips.)

What do people think?
Or would this be just another band-aid solution on a broken XP system?

I like your idea, Raven. Every day of the event, there is at least someone who misunderstands the difference between player and character level. Splitting the nomenclature would definitely be a step in the right direction. We may want to announce it in an automatic e-mail to all registered users to help draw attention to the change and to announce the benefits.

agreed. I had to spend 5 minutes on 3 diff occasions saturday night coaching, explaining this

Great ideas all around.

Makes sense to this newer player. I had to go through some mental gymnastics to separate the two levels.

I am totally behind the renaming of the two separate tracks and the benefit overhaul. These is simply no way to enforce the current Level 2 requirement for True Grind and the fact that the Medallion of Nobility is the proof requirement for the extra token borks-up the current level 5 and 6 progression.

It may also be beneficial to rethink the whole 4th level/5th level representation. Veterans understand the mechanics behind it, since we have actually watched the character cards increase in level. But, newcomers have a hard time understanding why characters start at 4th and how to get to 5th.

As the system currently stands, levels 0-3 do not exist (as well as levels 6-infinity). Level granting tokens do denote that characters gain +1 level, so we need to keep that construct. But, what if we simply reset the base character cards to Level 1 and any subsequent level simply follow suit? I know that the intent is to align the power levels, hit dice, saves, and other factors in a rough approximation to D&D (kind of 1st ed./kind of 3rd ed.). But, TD has evolved to the point were the associations are distant at best.

The biggest complication I can think of from this change (aside from redoing the character cards and changing info on the website/documentation) would be accounting for increases in Constitution and the commensurate raise in HP based on hit dice/level. But, I'm sure an elegant work-around could be devised.

Makes sense.

I have to say I like Raven's idea as well. It would be much easier for the newer players to use different terminology for Character levels and Player Ranks. I think I will start using those anyway.

I thought these:
Rank 2: You get to choose your class before Rank 1 players
Rank 3: (insert benefit here)
were actually this:
Rank 2: Can play True Grind
Rank 3: You get to choose your class before Rank 1 players

I like the idea, the system is dire need of an overhaul. Anything that makes it clear its a loyalty program is only a good thing IMO. Also like the idea of moving the extra token draw to 5th since it makes the medallion of nobility useful as a treasure proof.

It might also be a good idea to just say the higher ranked player gets first dibs on character choice outright rather then just players above rank X, since a lot of folks seem to think that's already the way it works and it would give each rank some benefit even if there was nothing else at that level.

Agree 100%

Without tangible proof of level, there will be no guarantee that a level by level preference system... or should I say rank by rank system for precedence in character selection will work any better.

This, my fifth year playing, was the first time I've heard another player attempt to invoke player level in the character selection process. Didn't work for him as the other player involved was also 3rd level. Wasn't necessarily good for the party as the second player was far better geared for the class.

In the end we worked it out and all was good.

As an old school D&D player, I'm ok with level having multiple meanings. Or levels having multiple levels of meaning. But I get that it does resonate for all and given that it has no in game benefit is not all the meaningful anyway.

I like Ravens idea. But I'm not sure that the selection precedence portion will work out so smoothly.

I do not like the idea of a character level reset, however. TD may have drifted somewhat from its D&D roots, but D&D is still at its heart and I hope it stays there.