TOPIC: Rules

I checked the player's handbook and around the site but I don't see the critical hit rules. What exactly are they? Specifically:

1) If you land on a critical but it wouldn't normally hit...is it still a hit/critical?

1b) If yes, does this also apply to anything that expands the critical range, ie keen. So if you have a to hit bonus of +1 and a keen weapon, does landing on a 19 crit a AC 24 creature.

2) What exactly is or is not doubled (is it double?) on a critical hit. Runestones? Oils? Bardsong? Everything?

I believe there was a similar thread, and I will hunt for it later. It said that a natural 20 was a hit, but can't remember if the 18-19 on Keen weapons would count if that number plus your to hit wasn't below the AC of the monster. The doubling of damage is a bit hazier, but I think it is doubled damage outside of special abilities, like the Rogue sneak. Only way to double the Sneak damage is with the Nightshade's and the dagger being the damage indicator.

I would also like to see the response from TPTB.

there is information in the DM Guide

I read it as the weapon damage is doubled but any bonuses from say strength are added after the base damage is doubled and not also doubled.

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Critical Hits
If a player slides a natural 20 (not when a monster rolls a natural 20), the damage inflicted by the weapon is doubled. Bonus damage from special weapons (e.g., +2 SLING OF IMPACT vs. big foes) as well as “vulnerable” damage (e.g., Cold vs. red dragon) is also doubled on a natural 20.

Only Natural 20s Automatically Hit
Weapons with the keen or smiting property (inherently or via a spell or oil) can score a critical hit when the player slides a natural 19 or 20. An ultra keen/smiting weapon crits on a natural 18, 19, or 20. But, no matter what the crit range of the weapon is, only a natural 20 is an automatic hit. Even if the weapon has an expanded crit range, if it lands anywhere other than the 20 zone, you must still check to see if the attack succeeds before assigning damage.

Crit Immunity
In role-playing terms, a critical hit means the victim has been struck in a vital part of its anatomy. A creature lacking any discernible vital anatomy cannot be critically hit. Constructs, incorporeal creatures, oozes, plants, or undead are all examples of creatures without vital anatomy. In general, if a monster is immune to being sneak attacked, it’s also immune to critical hits. The room’s description will specify whether a specific monster makes an exception to this rule.

There are tokens which override this restriction. E.g., CHARM OF FINAL REPOSE allows the wearer to crit/sneak attack undead and AMULET OF THE TINKERER allows the wearer to crit/sneak attack constructs. But keep in mind, those items allow the one specific character using the item to crit that one specific creature type. They do not bestow their abilities to other characters or other creature types.

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Brad wrote:
Critical Hits
If a player slides a natural 20 (not when a monster rolls a natural 20), the damage inflicted by the weapon is doubled. Bonus damage from special weapons (e.g., +2 SLING OF IMPACT vs. big foes) as well as “vulnerable” damage (e.g., Cold vs. red dragon) is also doubled on a natural 20.

that can be read either way: only the damage on the weapon token is doubled, OR all the damage dealt by the weapon (ie. after adding all bonuses...after all, any damage is being inflicted by the weapon).

I have always been under the impression that everything gets doubled, unless it is called out as not being doubled (ie. sneak attack damage).

kurtreznor wrote:

Brad wrote:
Critical Hits
If a player slides a natural 20 (not when a monster rolls a natural 20), the damage inflicted by the weapon is doubled. Bonus damage from special weapons (e.g., +2 SLING OF IMPACT vs. big foes) as well as “vulnerable” damage (e.g., Cold vs. red dragon) is also doubled on a natural 20.

that can be read either way: only the damage on the weapon token is doubled, OR all the damage dealt by the weapon (ie. after adding all bonuses...after all, any damage is being inflicted by the weapon).

I have always been under the impression that everything gets doubled, unless it is called out as not being doubled (ie. sneak attack damage).

Per combat DM training - The damage done by the weapon (what is on the token) is doubled. The damage done by the force of the blow behind the weapon (e.g. strength, Bracers of Archery, all the numbers added up and written on the party card) is not.

henwy wrote: 1) If you land on a critical but it wouldn't normally hit...is it still a hit/critical?

No

henwy wrote: 1b) If yes, does this also apply to anything that expands the critical range, ie keen. So if you have a to hit bonus of +1 and a keen weapon, does landing on a 19 crit a AC 24 creature.

No
If it's not a hit, it doesn't crit.
[apologies to Johnnie Cochran]

henwy wrote: 2) What exactly is or is not doubled (is it double?) on a critical hit. Runestones? Oils? Bardsong? Everything?

Other than sneak attack damage, everything (see below) is doubled.

Brad wrote: there is information in the DM Guide

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However, there is more information in the DMG which makes it clear that all but one kind of damage is doubled.

quoting from the DMG (my emphasis added):

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The damage to be doubled on critical hits includes "bonus" damage from specialized weapons and/or monster vulnerabilities. In a nutshell, all damage inflicted on a monster from a critical hit is doubled—with the exception of sneak attack damage (unless the rogue attacked with a Nightshade's +2 Short Sword or a Viper Strike fang while benefiting from the Viper Strike set bonus). Of course, the target must be susceptible to crits.
Example 1: A paladin is using a +2 Holy Great Sword (+3 damage vs. evil creatures) to attack an evil red dragon (+5 damage from cold sources). Her sword has been coated with Oil of the Yeti (+3 cold damage). The player slides a natural 20 and the "10" is closest to the damage dot on the combat board. The total damage dealt is 42. The base damage (10) gets doubled to 20, the bonus from hitting an evil creature (3) gets doubled to 6, the cold damage from the Oil of the Yeti (3) gets doubled to 6, and the red dragon's cold vulnerability (5) gets doubled to 10.
Example 2: A 4th-level rogue is using a +2 Dagger of Venom (+5 poison damage on a natural 20) to sneak attack a red dragon. The dagger has been coated with Oil of the Yeti. The player slides a natural 20 and the "6" is closest to the damage dot on the combat board. The total damage dealt is 53. The base damage (6) gets doubled to 12, the poison damage (5) gets doubled to 10, the cold damage from the Oil of the Yeti (3) gets doubled to 6, the red dragon’s cold vulnerability (5) gets doubled to 10, but the sneak attack damage (15) is not doubled because the attack was not made with a Nightshade's +2 Short Sword or a Viper Strike fang under the influence of the Viper Strike set bonus.
Note: Viper Strike fang attacks do not always double steak attack damage. In order for that to happen, the rogue must attack with a VS fang and be under the influence of the Viper Strike set bonus.

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Brad Mortensen wrote: Per combat DM training - The damage done by the weapon (what is on the token) is doubled. The damage done by the force of the blow behind the weapon (e.g. strength, Bracers of Archery, all the numbers added up and written on the party card) is not.

That is inaccurate. I'll discuss this topic with the DM trainers to get that corrected.

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