TOPIC: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch

Nope. Last I knew, there were 2 in a particular druids collection.

I know the UR Special is special and all but it feels wrong to me to have the sub-class ability. That ability is currently limited to only those having the the complete RoSP and only once per con per RoSP. My understanding was there were only maybe 100 complete RoSP out there. Sure the Special might be rarer but should it be as powerful?

It won't affect me either way since I don't have a Special and if someone were to use one and gain this ability it would not lessen my enjoyment of Grind. Just my two cents that I feel the RoSP should be more powerful than the Special.

jedibcg wrote: It won't affect me either way since I don't have a Special and if someone were to use one and gain this ability it would not lessen my enjoyment of Grind. Just my two cents that I feel the RoSP should be more powerful than the Special.

Well, the RoSP provides a permanent ability (once per year) whereas using the UR Special is a one-time thing.

Also, the RoSP provides all of the individual +1 Segment bonuses and also contributes to the Eldritch set.

Whereas with the UR Special, people are going to use the unrealistic metric of "Mithral Coin of Fate" to evaluate it. (And at best, Mithral Coin of Fate = Rod Segment Part 1 right now).

Incognito wrote:

jedibcg wrote: It won't affect me either way since I don't have a Special and if someone were to use one and gain this ability it would not lessen my enjoyment of Grind. Just my two cents that I feel the RoSP should be more powerful than the Special.

Well, the RoSP provides a permanent ability (once per year) whereas using the UR Special is a one-time thing.

Also, the RoSP provides all of the individual +1 Segment bonuses and also contributes to the Eldritch set.

Whereas with the UR Special, people are going to use the unrealistic metric of "Mithral Coin of Fate" to evaluate it. (And at best, Mithral Coin of Fate = Rod Segment Part 1 right now).

I understand your argument. I also understand your desire to offer something really good for someone to turn in the Special for Grind. I just don't agree that the power of Special should be equal to the RoSP for that year (especially if it would be all con long vs just one grind).

You mention that it could get you a fate coin through the Special. I thought you had a 50/50 chance of getting it from the Special. If you did get the fate coin then you could get 1/7 of the completed rod (granted the most expensive piece but only 1/7th). So value wise a Special is definitely up there but considering it could only maybe get you 1/7th of the RoSP I still don't believe it should be as powerful.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this one. It is just my two cents on why I don't think it should give you that ability. Again if it does it won't affect my play at all.

jedibcg wrote:

Incognito wrote:

jedibcg wrote: It won't affect me either way since I don't have a Special and if someone were to use one and gain this ability it would not lessen my enjoyment of Grind. Just my two cents that I feel the RoSP should be more powerful than the Special.

Well, the RoSP provides a permanent ability (once per year) whereas using the UR Special is a one-time thing.

Also, the RoSP provides all of the individual +1 Segment bonuses and also contributes to the Eldritch set.

Whereas with the UR Special, people are going to use the unrealistic metric of "Mithral Coin of Fate" to evaluate it. (And at best, Mithral Coin of Fate = Rod Segment Part 1 right now).

I understand your argument. I also understand your desire to offer something really good for someone to turn in the Special for Grind. I just don't agree that the power of Special should be equal to the RoSP for that year (especially if it would be all con long vs just one grind).

You mention that it could get you a fate coin through the Special. I thought you had a 50/50 chance of getting it from the Special. If you did get the fate coin then you could get 1/7 of the completed rod (granted the most expensive piece but only 1/7th). So value wise a Special is definitely up there but considering it could only maybe get you 1/7th of the RoSP I still don't believe it should be as powerful.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this one. It is just my two cents on why I don't think it should give you that ability. Again if it does it won't affect my play at all.

2013/2012 were flip the special? coin. if comes up one way..you get the coin of fate
if the other (2012) you got nothing
2013 you got an UR for that year

jedibcg wrote: I understand your argument. I also understand your desire to offer something really good for someone to turn in the Special for Grind. I just don't agree that the power of Special should be equal to the RoSP for that year (especially if it would be all con long vs just one grind).

The all con long ability would only be for Grind, and considering how hard tickets were to get, I don't see that many players benefiting from it.

Another question to consider is how many players will actually use their RoSP Prestige class on Grind?

My guess (and I could be wrong) is few. Unless maybe it is a Nightmare Grind (of which there were only two in 2013 and two in 2012), I think most players will save their RoSP effect for the main dungeon. If that is the case, then the value of a Prestige class in normal TD (which only the RoSP grants) is worth more than a Prestige class in Grind (which is what the proposed UR Special would do).

You mention that it could get you a fate coin through the Special. I thought you had a 50/50 chance of getting it from the Special. If you did get the fate coin then you could get 1/7 of the completed rod (granted the most expensive piece but only 1/7th). So value wise a Special is definitely up there but considering it could only maybe get you 1/7th of the RoSP I still don't believe it should be as powerful.

Yes, you are right it was 50% chance. I was just trying to simplify things. Sorry for not being more clear.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this one. It is just my two cents on why I don't think it should give you that ability. Again if it does it won't affect my play at all.

I definitely appreciate your thoughts, even if they oppose my initial perspective. It is always useful to hear from the other side!

It is possible I will use my RoSP voucher on grind (not on nightmare). I figure it will see as much use as a Combat run. I doubt the sub-class (I could be wrong) will do much help on puzzles.

jedibcg wrote: It is possible I will use my RoSP voucher on grind (not on nightmare). I figure it will see as much use as a Combat run. I doubt the sub-class (I could be wrong) will do much help on puzzles.

Agreed

For the value of the special, even with the ability to use it every grind you get lucky to get into for that con, I still don't suspect folks will use it. It might get 1 person maybe outside chance for a 2 tops.

If the prestige classes are overwhelmingly awesome for combat, then it would make sense to run with grind since its almost all combat, but the regular runs are twice as long so you get to play it twice as much.

You also run into a thing where many of the specials are held by folks that already have a RoSP so why would they want to burn their special for something they can already do for free each year.

Leave the power as is. Sleep well at night knowing no one will use it.

valetutto wrote: If the prestige classes are overwhelmingly awesome for combat, then it would make sense to run with grind since its almost all combat, but the regular runs are twice as long so you get to play it twice as much.

we still need to see these cards, I can't wait to find out what they are.

I'm hoping there are abilities beyond simple combat for some of the classes.

I suspect there will be use outside of combat making them great for regular runs.

Also, in the unlikely event there is some token draw boost, these would obviously become non-grind for almost everyone.

valetutto wrote: For the value of the special, even with the ability to use it every grind you get lucky to get into for that con, I still don't suspect folks will use it. It might get 1 person maybe outside chance for a 2 tops.

If the prestige classes are overwhelmingly awesome for combat, then it would make sense to run with grind since its almost all combat, but the regular runs are twice as long so you get to play it twice as much.

You also run into a thing where many of the specials are held by folks that already have a RoSP so why would they want to burn their special for something they can already do for free each year.

Leave the power as is. Sleep well at night knowing no one will use it.

Even in a combat run you will get maybe 5 rooms of combat at 12 minutes each is only 60 minutes of combat. I doubt any combat runs sees as many combat boards as you do in grind.

Since the current character cards don't do anything outside of combat (except healing, + to saves, open rogue boxes and such) I would be surprised if the sub-classes do anything more. Again I could be wrong I am just not expecting them to.

Some with more TD experience might be able to give examples of how they use their character card to advance in the dungeon outside of combat. I haven't been able to as of yet.

If no one is going to use the ability then I think it definitely should be reworked so there is a chance someone will use their special.